Don Palmer - Car Control day

Discussion on Advanced and Defensive Driving. IAM, RoSPA/RoADA, High Performance Course. All associated training. Car training.

Postby faboka » Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:39 am


So for my birthday Nicci asks what I want. So not done much driving (new born :)) I say "trackday at Oulton Park will be nice".

Wake up this morning to a Don Palmer car control day.

Can't wait :)

Question to fellow members who's had a car control day with Don. What's tyre wear like? Got a spare set of summer tyres as ive had winters fitted for the past 18 months. So plan will be to fit them.
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Postby hanse cronje » Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:04 pm


i did his course as hpc entry

tyre wear: i found it very high, but the tyres were new fronts on a front wheel drive car, the centre rib was ripped out, not sure if it was the surface at bruntingthorpe, the stress of the changes in direction, probably a combination of both.

if you can get hold of tyres with 2 mm that may be preferable
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Postby faboka » Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:23 pm


Think my old summers have about 2mm so will have them fitted.

Thanks
John
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Postby martine » Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:37 pm


hanse cronje wrote:i did his course as hpc entry

tyre wear: i found it very high, but the tyres were new fronts on a front wheel drive car, the centre rib was ripped out, not sure if it was the surface at bruntingthorpe, the stress of the changes in direction, probably a combination of both.

if you can get hold of tyres with 2 mm that may be preferable

And that's what puts me off doing limit handling in my ST...I just don't like being that mechanically unsympathetic (apart from the extra expense). Now if they supplied a car with suitable tyres...
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Postby jont » Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:41 pm


martine wrote:
hanse cronje wrote:i did his course as hpc entry

tyre wear: i found it very high, but the tyres were new fronts on a front wheel drive car, the centre rib was ripped out, not sure if it was the surface at bruntingthorpe, the stress of the changes in direction, probably a combination of both.

if you can get hold of tyres with 2 mm that may be preferable

And that's what puts me off doing limit handling in my ST...I just don't like being that mechanically unsympathetic (apart from the extra expense). Now if they supplied a car with suitable tyres...

/thread drift - Andy Walsh will hire Elises for his Car Limits training days. Last time I looked it was ~£200 for the day and another £200-£300 to hire one of his cars.
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Postby faboka » Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:49 pm


See I always prefer using my own car. I see it as, what i learn (or attempt too lol) I would rather learn in my own car rather than a "sports car".
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Postby kfae8959 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:38 pm


I did a whole day with Don with a set of tyres I already planned to replace, but in the event I didn't suffer undue wear, in large part because it rained all day. Never have I been so pleased to be on the M1 in the morning rush and heavy rain! Whatever the weather, I'm confident that what you learn will be worth the rubber.

David
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Postby Gareth » Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:08 pm


martine wrote:that's what puts me off doing limit handling in my ST...I just don't like being that mechanically unsympathetic

I'm not following the 'mechanically unsympathetic' part.
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Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:54 pm


Mechanics doesn't just mean metal bits. I imagine brakes, suspension joints, etc. come in for some level of punishment on a Don course, as well as tyres that we all know about.
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Postby Standard Dave » Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:55 pm


Gareth wrote:
martine wrote:that's what puts me off doing limit handling in my ST...I just don't like being that mechanically unsympathetic

I'm not following the 'mechanically unsympathetic' part.


I make the assumption that being on the limit of a vehicle is not very good for some components, aside from the tyres other parts will be potentially damaged or their servicable life shortened.

When I rag a vehicle I prefer it to be someone else's, hire companies and government departments are a favourite :D
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Postby ScoobyChris » Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:06 pm


Likewise did a day with him in the Mondeo with the aim of destroying some naff tyres. Unfortunately, came away with barely any wear thanks to doing it on a frosty November day. Can't comment on wear to other components, but nothing needed replacing in the year and a half before the car got replaced :D

On a side note, if I were to do it again, I'd ask a lot more questions - Don's coaching style relies on coaching rather than teaching...

Enjoy!

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Postby martine » Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:16 pm


Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:Mechanics doesn't just mean metal bits. I imagine brakes, suspension joints, etc. come in for some level of punishment on a Don course, as well as tyres that we all know about.

+1
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Postby Gareth » Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:21 pm


Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:I imagine brakes, suspension joints, etc. come in for some level of punishment on a Don course, as well as tyres that we all know about.

Well, it must be true to some extent, but I think not to the degree that some imagine. More than that, it seems odd to be talking about not being mechanically sympathetic as if it were an automatic given rather than mostly being a reflection on the student.

FWIW I did one of Don's courses many years ago just after I'd got new tyres on my GTV6. The only obvious wear was some light blistering on the outer inch of the tread on the tyres, which disappeared in a week or two of normal use. What was really only slightly accelerated wear and tear was a small additional price to pay for some really concentrated learning.

Martin - I wonder how much your point of view is coloured by your opinion that Don's coaching has nothing of significant value that can be used in road driving, coupled with the thought that it seems very expensive?
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Postby waremark » Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:38 pm


When I did a day with Don I used a hired Elise arranged expensively by Don.

Andy Walsh teaches similar stuff on a simllar surface, and I used my M3 for a 4 person day with him. He recommended blowing up the tyres beforehand to the max - I think I wnet to 50 psi all round. My tyres were ready for replacement when I went, and he was saying: 'Come on, you're changing the tyres anyway, see if you can get full opposite lock'. In spite of all that, the tyres were probably still legal when we finished.
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Postby martine » Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:51 pm


Gareth wrote:FWIW I did one of Don's courses many years ago just after I'd got new tyres on my GTV6. The only obvious wear was some light blistering on the outer inch of the tread on the tyres, which disappeared in a week or two of normal use. What was really only slightly accelerated wear and tear was a small additional price to pay for some really concentrated learning.

Accepted I may be oversensitive...but it just doesn't seem right to 'abuse' my beloved ST that's all.

Interesting that a couple of posters say they did a session with Don when it was wet or frosty...is this translatable to dry limit handling and if so, why not save wear and tear and always do it on a low-grip surface?

gareth wrote:Martin - I wonder how much your point of view is coloured by your opinion that Don's coaching has nothing of significant value that can be used in road driving, coupled with the thought that it seems very expensive?

You could be right but I'm not sure I've ever said it has nothing of value. I can see being able to explore and practice car handling at the limits (and beyond) of grip might be useful in extremis but personally I'd prefer to leave that to the ESP (only joking).
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