Modern cars are too good?

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Postby WhoseGeneration » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:44 pm


By which I mean that not very capable drivers are able to drive outside their ability for most of the time until their lack of skills results in a problem, for them and, often, others.
Or, am I wrong and it's that modern cars make for safer motoring, in the main?
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Postby kfae8959 » Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:51 am


Are those the only options?!

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Last edited by kfae8959 on Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Standard Dave » Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:37 pm


Modern attitudes are wrong.

Manufacturers put bigger better brakes on to stop cars faster, people drove faster.

They fitted bigger tyres with a low profile to give better sideways grip, people drove round corners faster.

They fitted ABS, stability assistance, traction control etc, people ignored road conditions.

Driver and wider population attitude is the problem.
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Postby jont » Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:43 pm


Standard Dave wrote:Modern attitudes are wrong.

Manufacturers put bigger better brakes on to stop cars faster, people drove faster.

They fitted bigger tyres with a low profile to give better sideways grip, people drove round corners faster.

They fitted ABS, stability assistance, traction control etc, people ignored road conditions.

Driver and wider population attitude is the problem.


They improved NVH and added sound isolation so people don't realise how quickly they are going or go faster to enjoy a sensation of speed
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Postby jcochrane » Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:16 pm


Many of today's small family cars have the performance of yesteryears sports cars.
Has training and the L test kept pace?
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Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:02 pm


Allegedly Boxsters are too capable and flatter the driver. Doesn't stop me wanting one though...
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Postby jcochrane » Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:39 pm


Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:Allegedly Boxsters are too capable and flatter the driver. Doesn't stop me wanting one though...

Not so much the Boxter but the Boxter S.....makes a bad driver look brilliant. But I want one as well.
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Postby chriskay » Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:05 am


jcochrane wrote:
Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:Allegedly Boxsters are too capable and flatter the driver. Doesn't stop me wanting one though...

Not so much the Boxter but the Boxter S.....makes a bad driver look brilliant. But I want one as well.


The Cayman/S perhaps even more so.
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Postby waremark » Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:28 am


Almost undoubtedly a large part of the fatality reduction achieved in the last 20 years has been due to vehicle engineering achievements. I don't think drivers often get near to any of the performance limits of their cars other than the ability to stop in the distance they can reasonably expect to remain clear.
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Postby WhoseGeneration » Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:26 pm


Standard Dave wrote:Modern attitudes are wrong.

Manufacturers put bigger better brakes on to stop cars faster, people drove faster.

They fitted bigger tyres with a low profile to give better sideways grip, people drove round corners faster.

They fitted ABS, stability assistance, traction control etc, people ignored road conditions.

Driver and wider population attitude is the problem.


This, I think, is what I was getting at.
It's also to do with, as jcohrane said, about the training for drivers, especially, in my view, the official sanctioned training.
Then too waremark's observation about stopping distance has relevance but doesn't always explain the single vehicle straight on at a bend stuff.
Basically, I believe too few drivers actually think about it in terms of all the stuff we here tend to do and that Government is little interested in changing that.
Therefore all the mandated "safety" additions to cars, instead of a truly educational approach with, for example, a graduated access to cars of higher performance.
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Postby martine » Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:58 pm


Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:Allegedly Boxsters are too capable and flatter the driver. Doesn't stop me wanting one though...

Me too...Cayman would be nice also. Tricky choice...Boxter S or Cayman S?

Back on topic...thing is...despite all the modern 'advances'...the road safety record continues to improve so perhaps the gadgets are doing a good job after all and not being countracted by the risk-takers.
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Postby WhoseGeneration » Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:29 am


martine wrote:
Back on topic...thing is...despite all the modern 'advances'...the road safety record continues to improve so perhaps the gadgets are doing a good job after all and not being countracted by the risk-takers.


Or, perhaps the ES response and A&E staff have more at their disposal than in the past?
Now there's another consideration in the argument.
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Postby ScoobyChris » Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:16 pm


martine wrote:Back on topic...thing is...despite all the modern 'advances'...the road safety record continues to improve so perhaps the gadgets are doing a good job after all and not being counetracted by the risk-takers.


I think this is definitely the case and the chances of walking away from a major accident are certainly far greater than they were even a decade or two ago. Better tyres, suspension, traction control systems, etc have also made getting near the limit of grip more difficult which I suspect ties in with the OP's question. Whether this is a problem, though is hard to say - the majority of people I would suspect drive well within their and the car's abilities, but I don't have any data to back that up :D

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Postby Ancient » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:15 pm


Is this really a safety advance as headlined http://www.sae.org/mags/aei/11702 ?

Or will it simply result (as some proximity detectors do and indeed "automatic" headlamp systems, with some drivers) in laziness and something else to blame when the technology doesn't do all that is expected (by the user rather than the designer)?

Humans are good enough at missing things they don't expect to see (gorilla in the room etc): This system is programmed to look for specific " elements that provide the sensors on the car under test with the correct visual properties and radar reflectivity". What about objects it (or the developers) haven't allowed for during testing? Will the users (drivers) simply expect that if it can avoid a car or a pedestrian then it 'must' be able to avoid a cyclist or a skip in the road?
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Postby intransit » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:27 pm


Short answer to the above....Yes they are.

I don't believe we should return to uncomfortable motors {I thought it a bonus, on my first motors, if the heater worked} but todays motorists are becoming more and more reliant on thier motors, but no matter how "good" the modern cars get at the end of the day a car is only as good as the person behind the wheel.
As good as some...better than most!
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