Who has right of way

by **kwaka jack** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:04 pm

I'm currently reading John Lyons advanced driving book and came across something that I was unsure about. Who had right of way in this situation? Left hand lane or right hand lane? I know it says avoid this situation but what if you somehow did find yourself in it.

by **Gareth** » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:40 pm

Your question is meaningless, (there is no right of way although in some circumstances one driver should yield priority to another). The driver of the vehicle in lane 3 is a position to more easily have better information but the driver of the vehicle in lane 1 should also be considering the possibility of a lane 3 vehicle returning to lane 2.

by **driverpete** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:45 am

As Gareth says there is no such thing as "Right of way". Each driver should take appropriate observations, anticipate what others might reasonably be expected to do and have a Plan B if things do not go according to Plan A. Always leave yourself an escape route.

by **ScoobyChris** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:58 am

Gareth wrote:Your question is meaningless, (there is no right of way although in some circumstances one driver should yield priority to another).

I think irrespective of whether I was in lane 3 or lane 1, I'd opt to yield to the other car ... not that I would be undertaking in lane 1 of course :twisted:

Chris

by **7db** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:45 pm

I think they all have a right of way.

In terms of priority, they are both moving into a lane in which they are not established. Hard for either to claim precedence. One of those rare areas where none is clear.

In shipping the nearside vehicle is constrained more than the offside vehicle so the offside vehicle would be required to stay clear. The Rules sadly don't fully extend to the road. One short blast of the horn: I am turning to starboard?

by **fungus** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:54 pm

Having read the book, I interpreted the illustration as a warning of the potential dangers of the situation, I never gave a thought to who has priority as I don't think there is a priority. The illustration is purely to highlight the potential dangers of the situation.

by **Ralge** » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:41 pm

I echo "there is no such thing as a right of way".
In the diagram (making some assumptions about its scale and the distances involved), the blue car travelling at 56 in lane 1 would be making a poor decision to speed up to move into lane 2.

Info' TUG should result, instead, in an easing off to create space and to avoid conflict with the slow vehicle in lane 1 and with the vehicles in Lane 2 and 3, whatever the rights and wrongs of their position and "overtaking" speeds, surely.

by **Ancient** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:45 pm

No-one has 'right of way'.
For blue car to move as indicated now is dangerous.
If I were in blue car and 'caught' in this situation (perhaps having just moved out of a slip, or perhaps the general traffic flow has been slow and is now clearing), I would look to brake to allow the amber car to complete it's overtake, then move out (assuming clear to do so) behind him to the outside lane and resume a 70mph cruising speed as the red 60mph car moved into lane2, thus leaving that bunching well behind and establishing clear space around me.

If I were in red car I would not be looking to move back to lane 2 until past the potential for conflict between amber and blue (and would accelerate to get away from it asap).

If I were in amber car I'd be worried about being blocked in both sides and would have been watching blue for some time, to see if (s)he was going to move out. Either I would have given blue room to do so (not moving alongside) or I would be traveling past with a significant differential (>5mph) once blue's chances of moving out was minimised.

Edit to add a thought from the M4 last night!
Perhaps the 56 and 60mph are because they are on a Managed Motorway with VSL in place!

by **FlyingFin** » Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:36 am

Look at the speeds...

Vehicle in lane one (V1) is approaching a slower moving HGV traveling at 40mph and has another vehicle (V2) traveling in lane 2 along side him at the same speed.

Both vehicles 1 and 2 level with each other.

Vehicle in lane 3 (V3) is traveling faster than the other two and is correctly overtaking in lane 3.

V1 must give way to V2 otherwise he will collide with V2 as they are both traveling at the same speed or run into the back of the HGV...

V3 continues to overtake unhindered by any other vehicle.

So... V2 in this scenario really does, by virtue of being in lane two with no obstructions ahead of him, have the right of way over V1.

by **martine** » Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:48 pm

Welcome 'Fin'.

FlyingFin wrote:...So... V2 in this scenario really does, by virtue of being in lane two with no obstructions ahead of him, have the right of way over V1.

Agreed but what's your thoughts about V3 vs V1?

PS you might like to do an intro post telling us a little about yourself...
http://www.advanced-driving.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=672

by **FlyingFin** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:57 am

By the time V1 gets the chance to pull out, bearing in mind he will have to reduce speed to do so, (otherwise he will collide with the rear of the HGV), there will be no conflict as V3 will have passed and will be ahead of V1.

by **martine** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:24 pm

FlyingFin wrote:By the time V1 gets the chance to pull out, bearing in mind he will have to reduce speed to do so, (otherwise he will collide with the rear of the HGV), there will be no conflict as V3 will have passed and will be ahead of V1.

But suppose the spacing was slightly different so V1 could pull out and there was then a potential conflict with V3...the OP was asking who has priority?

by **FlyingFin** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:13 pm

I cannot believe you want to change the scenario but hey ho...

If you cannot work out what you should do, maybe you should reconsider whether you are fit to drive on the public highway...

What does the highway code say about pulling out and making another driver alter course or speed??

There lye's your answer.....

We are on the Advanced Driving Forum aren't we?

This is bread and butter stuff; a learner driver is expected to know the answer to that, so how as an ''advanced driver'' and I use the term very loosely in this case, do you not know the answer??

Good grief, have driver standards dropped that much??

FF

by **martine** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:40 pm

Woah flyingfin We are discussing a driving situation - I have my own thoughts but I wanted to understand yours. The original post, I think, was asking who had priority: V1 or V3 so I'm not 'changing the driving scenario'.

I don't think the situation is as clear as you make out.

Perhaps we could keep the discussion going on a friendly basis without getting personal? I respect your experience, please respect mine.

by **kwaka jack** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:50 pm

FlyingFin wrote:I cannot believe you want to change the scenario but hey ho...

If you cannot work out what you should do, maybe you should reconsider whether you are fit to drive on the public highway...

What does the highway code say about pulling out and making another driver alter course or speed??

There lye's your answer.....

We are on the Advanced Driving Forum aren't we?

This is bread and butter stuff; a learner driver is expected to know the answer to that, so how as an ''advanced driver'' and I use the term very loosely in this case, do you not know the answer??

Good grief, have driver standards dropped that much??

FF

The scenario that I am setting is that the driver in lane 1 has enough space before the lorry to get out and pull into lane 2 into the path of the vehicle coming in from lane 3, so martine isn't changing the scenario.

I think your response was a bit strong. Bear in mind that everyone was a learner at some point, including you.

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