Approach speed too high.

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Postby fungus » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:17 pm


Today I was emerging onto a roundabout on the A349. The visibility to the right is not that poor, but can be an issue if drivers from the right are not approaching at a sensible speed. The road is subject to a 40mph limit and the visibility is good enough if you are on the A349 heading towards Wimborne that it encourages some drivers to approach at a speed that doesn't give drivers from the minor road to the left a chance to get out of the way without slowing them down. This is what happened to me today. Fortunately I was driving, as a learner would not have floored it and got out of the way of the woman in the 3 series BMW that came from the right at speed as I emerged. Her speed was a good bit higher than the previous drivers who had approached from the right and I probably did slow down her a little.

Why do some drivers not consider what drivers in the road to their left can see when they are approaching a roundabout?
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Postby exportmanuk » Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:01 pm


Probably because the only thing they can see is about 10 ft long and 6 feet wide section of road just in front of their bonnet. The only thing that exists in their world is them.
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Postby martine » Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:36 pm


fungus wrote:Why do some drivers not consider what drivers in the road to their left can see when they are approaching a roundabout?

Quite agree - they then wonder why some people 'pull out in front of them' and curse and swear and sometimes hit the horn :roll:

There's a roundabout near me that is medium sized with no view cross it, sometimes people driver round it quickly (probably within the speed limit) but not safely bearing in mind the view of others waiting to pull out. I've been caught by this but don't feel too bad as it's their own making.
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Postby brianhaddon » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:10 am


martine wrote:
There's a roundabout near me that is medium sized with no view cross it, sometimes people driver round it quickly (probably within the speed limit) but not safely bearing in mind the view of others waiting to pull out. I've been caught by this but don't feel too bad as it's their own making.

I think roundabouts like this must be all over the place. There is one in the village that I live in (in fact the only roundabout in the village). On two of the entrances there is a view to right but not the left. On the other two entrnces the view to the right is restricted. Drivers enter with no thought for others entering on their left. I have experienced this many times. You just have to pace it right to either get ahead (if already on the roundabout) or stop (if just entering) and have your eyes everywhere!

As to considering others entering roundabouts - it is not just restricted view roundabouts but larger roundabouts where speeds can be higher. This can make them difficult to enter for many.
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Postby Standard Dave » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:26 pm


You give way to the right on a roundabout, if the view is poor you have to adopt the DSA minimum standard of going to the give way line and stopping before moving out.

Technically if you affect the progress of a vehicle with a right of way you are driving without due care and consideration.

Many roundabouts have the same speed limit as the 40, 50 and NSL roads that approach them therefore it is reasonable for a driver to negotiate the junction at that speed if the road is clear and they have the right of way.

Unless it is clear and you can pull out without causing others to change their course or speed then put simply you should be stopping or giving way as the signs or lines show.

Would anyone pull out of a cross roads or T junction in front of a another vehicle just because they feel that the approacing vehicle is travelling either in excess of the speed limit or above the appropriate speed for the section of road?
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Postby MGF » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:41 pm


Regarding approach speeds, there is widespread misunderstanding of priority at roundabouts. Priority must be given to traffic on the roundabout not approaching it. Approaching traffic wrongly assuming it has priority over traffic emerging from the left is the cause of the problem.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/images/uksi_20023113_en_114

This is poorly interpreted in the HC

185 When reaching the roundabout you should give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights


This interpretation may have been intended to reduce the chances of emerging traffic taking risks but this appears to be at the expense of approaching traffic asserting their perceived priority carelessly.
Last edited by MGF on Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby fungus » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:21 pm


Standard Dave wrote:You give way to the right on a roundabout, if the view is poor you have to adopt the DSA minimum standard of going to the give way line and stopping before moving out.

Technically if you affect the progress of a vehicle with a right of way you are driving without due care and consideration.


I had already crossed the give way line and just entered the roundabout when she came into view. INHO if I had braked I would have been hit, so I used the other option and floored it.
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Postby MGF » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:39 pm


It is she who should be vulnerable to a prosecution for careless driving if you were on the roundabout before her. It is similar to approaching a zebra crossing at a speed that scares the ped to not step onto the crossing even though he has the right to do so because you are not yet on it.
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Postby brianhaddon » Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:31 pm


I think the rules for roundabouts are (I hope) widely known on this forum. I took the OPs message to be similar to the roundabout in my village inasmuch as you can be on the the roundabout (i.e.) over the give way line THEN a vehicle comes into view from your right at speed. This is because their view to their right is clear so they consider it ok to enter the roundabout. In these situations I feel it is is a mistake to enter a roundaboout without consideration for others who may be trying to join in front of you regardless of the rules. With that in mind I always monitor my speed on approach to such scenarios.
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Postby MGF » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:28 am


I understood that too. I agree it is a mistake to do so but I pointed out why people do it which was the question in the OP.

They wrongly believe that the traffic emerging from the left must yield to them simply because of their direction of travel. This priority does not arise until they have entered the rab. If traffic emerges from the left prior to them entering the rab then they must yield to it.

If the HC simply stated the regs faithfully, that is, emerging traffic must give way to traffic already on the rab, the problem would be much less common and traffic might flow better.
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Postby waremark » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:37 pm


I suggest that it is brave or foolish to enter a RAB when a vehicle is approaching rapidly from the right, even if you have priority in law. This often arises at mini RAB's, and most traffic behaves (as encouraged by the HWC) as though traffic from the right has priority whoever has entered the RAB first.
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Postby MGF » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:28 pm


I agree, but the problem might occur less if the rule was applied differently. The focus on traffic approaching from the right encourages people to accelerate into the rab to ensure they to not impede progress from the right.

This means drivers generally approach the rab at speed looking to the right and not paying attention to what is or will be in front of them. When they do look ahead they either do not want to slow due to a misplaced perception of priority or find it difficult to slow and still yield to the traffic from their right.
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Postby 7db » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:49 pm


If they hit you on the side it's probably your fault, if they hit you on the rear it's probably theirs.
Either way it's still a hit, and the RAB comes with a further warning that you must not enter it so as to endanger any road user.

I agree with MGF's reading of the law. As ever, the give way is about vehicles established on a speed and course on the (small circular one-way) road.

Dicking around on RABs is barely worth it. There are lovely straight overtaking sections before and after. Might as well use space on the RAB to carry enough speed to use them. Never go round with anyone else (or at least mutter to yourself that you shouldn't when you do).
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Postby ROG » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:08 pm


Try pulling out to turn right onto a roundabout from a standing start with a fully laden full sized artic

The artic gets to a point where its fully blocking all lanes and the cars that were not in view when it started to pull out are now slamming on brakes to avoid a collision and blowing horns because they believe its the fault of the artic !!!!!!
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Postby brianhaddon » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:10 pm


waremark wrote:I suggest that it is brave or foolish to enter a RAB when a vehicle is approaching rapidly from the right, even if you have priority in law.

The point here is that you are not entering a RAB when a vehicle is approaching rapidly from the right (well not one in sight). You are already on the roundabout when the vehicle comes into view. When you enter the roundabout there is no view to tell you whether there are vehicles approaching rapidly from the right - you can only see the entrance of the roundabout not the appproach. You must make a decision to go onto the roundabout at some point otherwise you will be there all day. It is how to deal with this situation and the consequence of someone entering a tad to fast I believe the OP was asking about.
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