Minibus Drivers

Discussion on Advanced and Defensive Driving and training for LGV, HGV, PCV, Minibus's etc type vehicles.

Postby henry » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:27 pm


If you drive minibuses for sports fixtures (sports teacher) at a school, can you drive on a B licence? Also in January 2013 when the new classifications for licences come into force will there be any change for teaching staff who drive minibuses.
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Postby MGF » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:47 am


When did you pass your car test? Pre/post 1st jan 1997.

Is the school fee-paying or maintained?

Does the school have a Section 19 bus permit?

Does your contract of employment require you to drive the minibus?
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Postby ROG » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:08 am


henry wrote:If you drive minibuses for sports fixtures (sports teacher) at a school, can you drive on a B licence? Also in January 2013 when the new classifications for licences come into force will there be any change for teaching staff who drive minibuses.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Dr ... DG_4022619
Holders of a full category B (car) driving licence may drive any of the vehicles listed below:

•a minibus with up to 16 passenger seats provided the following conditions are met:

i. the vehicle is used for social purposes by a non-commercial body but not for hire or reward
ii. the driver is aged 21
iii. the driver has held a car (category B) licence for at least 2 years
iv. the driver is providing the service on a voluntary basis
v. the minibus maximum weight is not more than 3.5 tonnes or 4.25 tonnes including any specialist equipment for the carriage of disabled passengers

i. state school is regarded as non commercial body + no-one must pay to travel in it - sports is social activity unless paid professional
ii. lets assume you are 21+ so thats ok
iii.lets assume you have car licence for 2+ years so thats ok
iv. you must not be paid for this time - salary does not count
v. check the weight on the plate, V5 or handbook

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Dr ... /DG_201187
Nothing in the new licence rules changes the above ruling
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Postby henry » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:12 pm


The School is a public School (fee paying). The teachers are compelled to drive a minibus, although not written in their contract.
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Postby MGF » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:17 pm


Rog, your interpretation of i and iii is inconsistent with the guidance.

Passengers can pay if the driver has passed his car test before Jan '97 and the driver is drivng under a Section 19 permit.

The definition of volunteer is unclear however the guidance is that if someone's contract of employment requires them to drive minibuses they cannot be a 'volunteer' when doing so. Salary does count.


Henry, when did you pass your test?
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Postby henry » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:23 pm


2008. Not sure whether I would be covered if told to drive on a b licence. The police and Tranport police said you are not covered, however some County Councils say you are covered.
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Postby foxtrot_mike » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:54 pm


The rule that normally stops people in their tracks is the one below

v. the minibus maximum weight is not more than 3.5 tonnes or 4.25 tonnes including any specialist equipment for the carriage of disabled passengers

Most minibuses are now over 3.5 tonnes gross weight particularly 14 and 16 seaters

However you will notice that the description does not mention gross vehicle weight so the interpretation is unclear.

My local authority wont allow anyone to drive one of their buses (including schools) unless they have a D1 on the licence plus a noddy training course.

Most car hire firm wont allow anyone to drive unless they have D1
I have even heard rumours that some insurance companies stipulate this.
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Postby ROG » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:02 pm


MGF wrote:Rog, your interpretation of i and iii is inconsistent with the guidance.

The OP clearly stated a B licence so my reply was for that purpose

Answer would be different if got D1 101 code
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Postby ROG » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:05 pm


I bet if dug deeper the 3500 kgs will be GVW as that conforms to B licences
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Postby ROG » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:07 pm


henry wrote:The School is a public School (fee paying). The teachers are compelled to drive a minibus, although not written in their contract.

OUCH!!

That is probably run as profit making unless it is a listed charity??
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Postby MGF » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:09 pm


henry wrote:2008. Not sure whether I would be covered if told to drive on a b licence. The police and Tranport police said you are not covered, however some County Councils say you are covered.


Post '97 car licence holders can only drive minibuses as 'volunteers'. The fact that teachers can be compelled to drive implies that they are contracted to do so. It follows that they are being paid to drive which can only mean that they need full D1 entitlement.

Sometimes teachers will drive incidentally for school trips etc and can argue that they are not being paid for the driving because they do not have to do it. I don't think this apples to those in your situation.

No one really knows what the law is as the courts have not ruled on it. The best we have to go on is the DfT guidance and I think that is clear.
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Postby MGF » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:19 pm


ROG wrote:
MGF wrote:Rog, your interpretation of i and iii is inconsistent with the guidance.

The OP clearly stated a B licence so my reply was for that purpose

Answer would be different if got D1 101 code



You cannot take it for granted that someone with a B licence will know whether or not they also have D1 (101) entitlement. It is essential to ask people the right questions to be able to give them the correct advice.
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Postby ROG » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:29 pm


MGF wrote:You cannot take it for granted that someone with a B licence will know whether or not they also have D1 (101) entitlement. It is essential to ask people the right questions to be able to give them the correct advice.

What difference to the answer for driving a minibus on a B licence would that make?

The question was specific and a specific answer was given for it
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Postby MGF » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:45 pm


It's specific in terms of what you understand it to mean but you cannot be certain the OP had the same meaning in mind when asking the question.

There is no point in us engaging in a discussion on the semantics of the question. In my experience, when giving advice, you need to be certain about what the questioner means by their question rather than jumping in with an impressive demonstration of your knowledge. :)
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Postby Flexibase » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:08 pm


What is meant by ther original questioner by:
"will there be any change for teaching staff who drive minibuses.?"
By "teaching staff" are you asking about giving driving instruction to staff members?
Last edited by Flexibase on Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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