Signaling large roundabouts

[ham]

Hi Folks would like to pick your minds regarding signalling on large multi lane roundabouts the type that come of motorways, often with traffic lights as well. Once in the correct lane is my position in that lane the signal. For example do I need to drive round turning right with the right indicator on. If the roundabout is large that seems to me to be pointless, if there is more than one lane to turn right it is also confusing. Are you signalling to go round the roundabout or are you signalling to change lanes to the right. The same applies coming off the roundabout if there are 2 or 3 lanes coming off. Are you signalling to come off or to change lanes? Is my position in that lane the signal? I know traffic joining the roundabout also benefit from the signal but sometimes the gap between the exit and next entrance is so large they wouldn’t benefit. Any advice would be welcome especially from you folks who have pasted the advanced driving test.

[Russ_H]

This is a personal view, but I feel that roundabouts with lights are best treated as one-way systems, rather than as conventional roundabouts. If you were driving in a one-way system, and you wished, for example, to make a lane change, you might signal, depending upon circumstances.

There is a roundabout near me that has lights, but not on all of the entry roads. It can, therefore, be helpful to joining drivers to give an exit signal.

http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll=54.865902,-1.564415&spn=0.00276,0.006856&t=k&z=17

Regards,

Russ

[ROG]

As with any signal -
is it useful to another road user right now ? - yes - use it
is it likely to confuse ? - yes - don't use it

[fungus]

I tend to agree with Russ.

There is a large roundabout near me with traffic lights. I tend not to signal except where a lane is dedicated for two seperate exits. I then signal to exit the first exit but not the second if it is obvious that it goes nowhere else. Quite often the lane will widen just prior to the exit. Position will be quite a good indication of intent. However it's quite common for drivers to change lanes just at the point where a lane exits the roundabout when they find that they need to continue to the next exit.

[devonutopia]

The "roundabout" under the M5 at junction 30 (Exeter & Services) is one I wouldn't indicate on, unless there were two possible routes off one lane. Typical example, left lane coming from Exmouth, you can go left onto M5 southbound, or straight under M5 and up dual carriageway into Exeter centre. I would indicate to go on M5, not if going to town. If going in the right lane, under the M5, and hooking up with the M5 northbound, I would just follow the correct lane for M5 northbound right around and not indicate at all. Sometimes lane changes are needed haflway around - for example 2 lanes go up the M5 northbound at the last set of lights so I may wish to come into lane 2 before the last lights if the traffic is heavy and blocking up lane 1 up to the last set of lights. Then indication is a certainty, especially due to other traffic in such a situation.

Ultimately this is a very drawn out way of saying "useful? yes, do it, no? don't"

[Renny]

This is a personal view, but I feel that roundabouts with lights are best treated as one-way systems, rather than as conventional roundabouts. If you were driving in a one-way system, and you wished, for example, to make a lane change, you might signal, depending upon circumstances.
<snip>
Regards,

Russ

I recall these being described as "gyratory traffic systems" by TrafPol in Aberdeen and I tend to trweat them the same way as Russ. I suppose in theory, the spiral lane markings should help with the flow and route, but in many cases drivers just ignore them and chop across without signals (or observation )

[Big Err]

Where traffic signals are used the junction is no longer a "roundabout" as roundabout rules do not apply. As mentioned before I'd follow my lane and only signal if I intended to alter my course from it.

[ExadiNigel]

Where traffic signals are used the junction is no longer a "roundabout" as roundabout rules do not apply. As mentioned before I'd follow my lane and only signal if I intended to alter my course from it.

I think teh Highway Code would disagree...

184

On approaching a roundabout take notice and act on all the information available to you, including traffic signs, traffic lights and lane markings which direct you into the correct lane. You should

...

My highlighting.

Nigel

[fungus]

Where traffic signals are used the junction is no longer a "roundabout" as roundabout rules do not apply. As mentioned before I'd follow my lane and only signal if I intended to alter my course from it.

I think teh Highway Code would disagree...

184

On approaching a roundabout take notice and act on all the information available to you, including traffic signs, traffic lights and lane markings which direct you into the correct lane. You should

...

My highlighting.

Nigel

I agree Nigel, but most large roundabouts with traffic lights have well defined lanes, sometimes two abreast going in the same direction,ie into a dual carriageway. Most of the time a signal is not neccessary on these roundabouts. In fact I would be looking for lane wandering and the signals of those who are in the wrong lane rather than those who do not signal, but whose driving is predictable.

[7db]

Where traffic signals are used the junction is no longer a "roundabout" as roundabout rules do not apply.

I had the joy of debating this point with an adjudicator. It concerned a yellow box, the rules for which are different on roundabouts than for junctions ("roundabout rules" are not just rules about priorities). The junction on the "Hammersmith Roundabout" had green right arrows on the traffic lights and was held (in a very non-binding way) to be a right turn, not a roundabout.

I still lost.

[Big Err]

It concerned a yellow box, the rules for which are different on roundabouts than for junctions ("roundabout rules" are not just rules about priorities). The junction on the "Hammersmith Roundabout" had green right arrows on the traffic lights and was held (in a very non-binding way) to be a right turn, not a roundabout.

I still lost.

There shouldn't be yellow box markings on roundabouts - Only on roundabout type things with traffic signals

My point about the different rules, is that when approaching a set of traffic lights at green on a "signalised roundabout", you don't generally give way to traffic coming from the right - mainly because it's sitting at a red light.

If you treat a signalised roundabout as a normal signalised junction, you enter the appropriate lane on the approach for your destination and go with the green light - assuming all other factors allow. At a roundabout you select the appropriate lane on your approach and give way to traffic on the roundabout.

As mentioned before, spiral road markings are usually employed at large "signalised roundabout" which in effect means you have no need to signal a deviation in course unless you wish to change lanes. Signalisation can also allow an increase in capacity because two or more lane exits can be achieved from the circulatory carriageway by use of spiral road lane markings

[jont]

Signalisation can also allow an increase in capacity when busy, at the cost of messing everyone around when it's quiet because two or more lane exits can be achieved from the circulatory carriageway by use of spiral road lane markings

/efa

[Big Err]

Signalisation can also allow an increase in capacity when busy, at the cost of messing everyone around when it's quiet because two or more lane exits can be achieved from the circulatory carriageway by use of spiral road lane markings

/efa

Yeah, I keep wanting the roads just designed for me

[ExadiNigel]

....My point about the different rules, is that when approaching a set of traffic lights at green on a "signalised roundabout", you don't generally give way to traffic coming from the right - mainly because it's sitting at a red light.....

I agree the rules are slightly different but they are still roundabouts and, if the traffic on your right isn't stopping at that red light then you are still going to give way to it aren't you?

Nigel

[7db]

*pedantry alert*

There shouldn't be yellow box markings on roundabouts - Only on roundabout type things with traffic signals

Care to comment on TSRGD Schedule 19 Part 11 Para 7 Part (ii) a (no that wasn't from memory ), which removes the exemption for right turns where the box is on a roundabout?

you don't generally give way to traffic coming from the right - mainly because it's sitting at a red light.

I think that's traffic already on the roundabout that you need to give way to, rather than just on the right.