Not 'hand' brake . . . 'finger'

[Horse]

So work have got in a small fleet of VW Passat estates, with the dash-mounted button parking brake.

It's on the right of the steering column, and you have to have your foot on the brake for the finger brake to release.

How should a hill start be done using this contraption?

[michael769]

How should a hill start be done using this contraption?

I would hope it has some form of anti-roll back?

[michael769]

How should a hill start be done using this contraption?

It also has "auto-hold" feature that holds the car stationary on a hill without you pressing the brake pedal. I assume that that will prevent roll back when you release the footbrake?

EDIT: one of the guys in the office has one. Apparently with both auto hold and the handbrake on the handbrake will automatically release if you press the accelerator.

[Horse]

How should a hill start be done using this contraption?

It also has "auto-hold" feature that holds the car stationary on a hill without you pressing the brake pedal. I assume that that will prevent roll back when you release the footbrake?

EDIT: one of the guys in the office has one. Apparently with both auto hold and the handbrake on the handbrake will automatically release if you press the accelerator.

Hmmm . . . we stopped on a hill, applied the parking brake, released it (foot on pedal) . . . and rolled backwards . . .

[waremark]

Next thing to try is starting off on a hill without releasing the handbrake.

[TripleS]

How should a hill start be done using this contraption?

I would hope it has some form of anti-roll back?

Jaguars of the 1950s fitted with the Borg-Warner 'DG' automatic transmission had that feature. It's not a new idea by any means, although that system was transmission related, and it had nothing to do with the handbrake.

Incidentally, assuming the system works, how do new drivers get tested on hill starts if they take their test in a car fitted with one of these newfangled systems?

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[jont]

Incidentally, assuming the system works, how do new drivers get tested on hill starts if they take their test in a car fitted with one of these newfangled systems?

IIRC last time we discussed this that cars fitted with electronic handbrakes with anti-rollback can't be used for the DSA test.

[fungus]

[quote="jont"][quote="TripleS"]
Incidentally, assuming the system works, how do new drivers get tested on hill starts if they take their test in a car fitted with one of these newfangled systems?[/quote]
IIRC last time we discussed this that cars fitted with electronic handbrakes with anti-rollback can't be used for the DSA test.[/quote]

That's correct. The DSA will not allow a car that's fitted with electronic handbrake or anti roll back to be used on a test, as it is not possible for the examiner to test the candidates ability to co-ordinate the use of the clutch accelerator and handbrake when moving off on a hill. Just what they'll do in a few years time when these features become common on the smaller car, I don't know. I geuss they'll have to be more like the IAM and test in what ever car the candidate is using.

[Horse]

IIRC last time we discussed this that cars fitted with electronic handbrakes with anti-rollback can't be used for the DSA test.

That's correct. The DSA will not allow a car that's fitted with electronic handbrake or anti roll back to be used on a test, as it is not possible for the examiner to test the candidates ability to co-ordinate the use of the clutch accelerator and handbrake when moving off on a hill. Just what they'll do in a few years time when these features become common on the smaller car, I don't know. I geuss they'll have to be more like the IAM and test in what ever car the candidate is using.

They already 'refuse' a number of convertables because of limited rear view, I wonder how much more obscured some 'fixed head' roof cars will get, some already have ridiculously small rear windows.

Also, in the bike world, DSA wouldn't accept the BMW C1 for tests.

[waremark]

I have only had a little experience with electronically operated parking brakes. I have found them excellent in automatics, but a pain in manuals. In a manual car with a conventional handbrake, I frequently apply the handbrake only for an instant (without releasing the ratchet) to start again after a brief stop. With an electronic parking brake, it is necessary to wait for it to apply fully before starting to move, which takes longer.

[Discodriver]

How should a hill start be done using this contraption?

It also has "auto-hold" feature that holds the car stationary on a hill without you pressing the brake pedal. I assume that that will prevent roll back when you release the footbrake?

EDIT: one of the guys in the office has one. Apparently with both auto hold and the handbrake on the handbrake will automatically release if you press the accelerator.

Hmmm . . . we stopped on a hill, applied the parking brake, released it (foot on pedal) . . . and rolled backwards . . .

You shouldn't need to push the button to release. Just get the correct combination of acclerator and clutch and the brake should release, even on a hill. Takes a bit of practice. But can be a bit frustrating at first.

[Horse]

You shouldn't need to push the button to release. Just get the correct combination of acclerator and clutch and the brake should release, even on a hill. Takes a bit of practice. But can be a bit frustrating at first.

Can't swear to it, but I think we've tried that . . .

I had a look in one last night (others were driving them), and there is a button 'Auto Hold' to the left of the gear lever.

If I get a chance, I'll have a play.

Worst comes, there's always the handbook . . . RTFM or, as the Yanks say, "Ask your MOM" - manufacturer's operating manual


But . . . is a classic (fast becoming 'retro') handbrake so bad? And how much more to go wrong is there in a new one?

[jont]

And how much more to go wrong is there in a new one?

Where do you think manufacturers are increasingly making money? Margins on sales are getting ever smaller, so they need to make it back on servicing/parts somehow. And of course if a cars life can usefully be reduced because of spares going obsolete or repair costs being more than a car is worth, people will have to buy them more often too.
</cynic mode>

[Angus]

In a manual car with a conventional handbrake, I frequently apply the handbrake only for an instant (without releasing the ratchet) to start again after a brief stop. With an electronic parking brake, it is necessary to wait for it to apply fully before starting to move, which takes longer.

Nonsense - I've had a car with an electronic handbrake for over 5 years and its a feature I appreciate. It makes moving off quicker as, for example, when traffic lights start to change to green, you can put the car in gear, raise the clutch and be moving as soon as the light is actually green.

I'll admit that moving off uphill sometimes requires an act of faith, but it works fine without an anti-roll feature. And I can control it manually if I want to. Another advantage is that it applies as soon as the engine is stopped.

[TripleS]

In a manual car with a conventional handbrake, I frequently apply the handbrake only for an instant (without releasing the ratchet) to start again after a brief stop. With an electronic parking brake, it is necessary to wait for it to apply fully before starting to move, which takes longer.

Nonsense - I've had a car with an electronic handbrake for over 5 years and its a feature I appreciate. It makes moving off quicker as, for example, when traffic lights start to change to green, you can put the car in gear, raise the clutch and be moving as soon as the light is actually green.

I'll admit that moving off uphill sometimes requires an act of faith, but it works fine without an anti-roll feature. And I can control it manually if I want to. Another advantage is that it applies as soon as the engine is stopped.

Nonsense, you say. Mark doesn't normally talk nonsense so I'm inclined to suspect the two of you are talking about different car models. Maybe electronic parking brakes do not all behave in the same fashion, so you might both be right. The only one I can recall encountering was on a Renault Scenic about four years ago, and I found that one to be rather tricky; but then I would. I'm a bit shy of some of these newfangled gadgets.

Best wishes all,
Dave.