Please comment on a video I made

Discussion on Advanced and Defensive Driving. IAM, RoSPA/RoADA, High Performance Course. All associated training. Car training.

Postby somewhatfoolish » Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:29 pm


For brevity, I will just copy and paste from the youtube description. I also have a thread about this on pistonheads. Am particularly intersted in hearing about positioning but naturally anything you can point out, I'm all ears to!

P.S. Sorry about the gibbering all the way through. I wasn't supposed to be an advanced-driving type commentry... I was actually aiming to be completely silent. But I kept on talking about shite :D

Video is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNv6UcDzGpU and there is also something I stabalised with youtube's tools if you find the first video too bumpy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52PQRjz8jDQ

Description follows:

I request constructive feedback to improve my driving.

I would consider this film something of a failure - firstly, to get the damn thing uploaded to youtube in hours rather than days, I have had to compress it to a much lower quality than I would have liked, which makes a lot of the detail fairly hard to make out. Then youtube has compressed it even more! There's a couple of minutes driving through some trees where it's so blocky it's impossible to have any idea what's happening

Secondly, the camera was not particularly stable and kept running out of power. The instability increases towards the end, I think because my makeshift adaption of a mobile phone holder was loosening.

Thirdly, I had not planned to provide a "advanced driving"-style commentary, so I didn't. What I did provide, however, was on a number of occasions, including the beginning, a very unhelpful gibber. Frankly, you may as well mute it. Having said that, on an "advanced driving" note, I have tried to drive using the system as described in roadcraft as a strong basis for my technique, although with common sense applied for things like brake-gear overlap. At no point was the car anywhere near the limits of adhesion so car-control is a non issue.

The video is, as said, mostly so I can get comments to improve my driving. There is also a partial bit of showing off the Isle of Man - the beautiful views, the varied roads. Hopefully I will be able to produce another vid in the near future, with considerably better production quality and with other locations in this special place on display.

A final note: If you are unaware, many roads on the Isle of Man are derestricted. I have adhered, perhaps anally, to speed limits where they exist, but where they haven't I have not been afraid to put my foot down, subject to both mechanical symapthy and the golden rule of always being able to comfortably stop within the distance that you know will remain clear. Not that this was filmed in a sports car - it was in fact an Omega 3.0 MV6.

P.S. There are no "incidents" in this video - the closest is a cat strolling across the road about 51 minutes 20 seconds in. The second closest is when I pressed the horn and it didn't sound, momentarily confusing me. This is not for the easily bored.

P.P.S. Although the vid is full of amazing views, the second one I wanted to highlight especially is about an hour and one minute in. I position the car to show it. If the video wasn't a quarter the resolution I shot it at, I assure you you'd be amazed!
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Postby somewhatfoolish » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:33 pm


47 thread views and not a single comment! I know it's a very long vid, but how about just watching the first ten minutes? If you tihnk my driving was crap don't be afraid to say so, I'm here for feedback!
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Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:56 pm


My colleague Mr Grayson has already posted on PH. I'm sure when he's had the opportunity to view more of the video, he'll expand on his comments ;)
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Postby jameslb101 » Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:38 pm


As much enthusiasm as I have for advanced driving, an hour of amateur in-car video is beyond my boredom threshold. Make a 5 minute version and you'll get a better response.
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Postby somewhatfoolish » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:45 pm


jameslb101 wrote:As much enthusiasm as I have for advanced driving, an hour of amateur in-car video is beyond my boredom threshold. Make a 5 minute version and you'll get a better response.


How about just watching from 1 minute in to 9 minutes in? Contains I think about 5 or 6 overtakes, and stunning scenery, as well as speeds that would be twice the limit in the UK. What's not to love? :lol:

Then watch the last five minutes cause I'm interested in knowing if my town positioning is considered too "extreme"...
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Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:59 pm


Having watched those sections, my comments are the same as Mr Grayson's - slight tendency to cut right-handers - several times you came round a right-hander on or over the centre-line, judging by the change in road position from "normal", saw an oncoming vehicle, then corrected back to the left. Overtakes looked fine, although of course we don't quite get the same impression of the cross views on the camera as the driver does, so one or two of them (the white Audi for instance) look as if they start before the view has really developed. I really would like some proper Roadcraft commentary rather than the stuff about the scenery, though, if it's the driving we're meant to be assessing. :mrgreen:

Credit to you for putting yourself out there, though. Not everyone has the guts to do that, me included :)
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Postby somewhatfoolish » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:13 pm


Could you point me to one of those occasions please (by h:mm:ss)? With one exception where I was a bit "naughty" I don't remember adjusting course cause of vehicle, but seeing it would help me.

Appreciate it.
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Postby Gareth » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:03 pm


2:01 seemed an odd line into the right bend just after passing the on-coming car, seemed to compromise the exit of the bend and possibly the set up for the next bend.

3:06 thought you could have taken a wider line approaching the entry for the left bend, making for a nicer line cutting back in to the left on the exit.

3:48 you made a much nicer job on the entry to this left bend although you seemed to choose to move wide on the exit rather than drifting wide as part of the cornering, making it seem like a policy decision rather than because there was any benefit.

4:21 another odd line into a right bend which didn't buy any benefit as you seemed uncertain in your positioning prior to over-taking. I suspect not cutting the entry of the bend then smoothly moving out to line up for the overtake would have been nicer, making it one manoeuvre rather than two separate.

4:53 hard to tell how much the camera foreshortens but it seems you closed up on the motorbike for no gain, and by 5:03 dropping back slightly, which would have possibly been the point to be moving up and slightly wide in preparation for possible overtake. Overall slightly inconsistent in the following distance for this section, I think.

9:05 couldn't make out whether there was an entrance on the right immediately after the two car overtake.

12:58 couldn't see why you moved out at that point especially as you were approaching a right turn ... oh, now see a a car reversing out of a drive on the left at 12:57 but by 12:58 it is obscured by glare. Regarding the horn - you might try keeping your left thumb pressed against the nearest horn push area while in the more hazardous parts of built up areas, to make it more hair-triggered.

15:52 onwards following downhill, I think you were in 3rd. Were you braking to maintain the following distance down the hill? Did you consider changing down to 2nd near the top of the hill to hold the car back and stop it gaining speed?

YouTube stopped sending at 18:40 so if I get more I may comment further.

Nice pace, generally, for the rural blind lefts.

Hard to tell if the camera was solidly mounted laterally since there appeared to be some sudden or slightly rough steering inputs where it wasn't needed. It does seem to me more apparent on left bends though. Maybe the video compression is also having an adverse effect - also hard to tell.

Style for rural bends seems to be slowing to the apex, which can delay or reduce the exit speed. I think you could have been on the power earlier a number of times.
Last edited by Gareth on Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby somewhatfoolish » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:32 pm


Yes, the camera mounting is atrocious, as it's something I improvised. Basically I used a mobile phone holder, cut off some of the stuff with scissors so it would roughly hold my camera, then attached said camera with masking tape. In particular I think that explains some jerks as lateral G's change.

I used youtube automated stablised tools to come up with this less-shaky one and if you're going to go through the entire vid I'd probably recommend you try that one instead, it's at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52PQRjz8jDQ

I am purposefully refraining from saying anything else until you finish your analysis, other than you have some damn good points, and keep bringing them on!
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Postby Gareth » Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:19 am


30:34 moving out to gain a view, again at 30:47, and then not returning quicker might have discomforted the on-comer. This sequence also showed that you maintained a contact position while hoping an opportunity would develop.

35:22 I think I'd have kept more right given the driveways are all on the left in the GLF.

40:04 I think you could have already lifted off, possibly before actually passing the first car, since you needed to get in before the cross-roads.

40:12 overtake with entrances to the right, although I think you were mentioning this point.

48:xx it struck me that you prefer going fast in a relatively straight line to making a really good job of the bends which, for me, are much more interesting.

1:04:21-30 nice line.

You seemed to go over speed bumps quicker than I do, but presumably it's your car and your bills :roll:


If I'm going to drive vicariously, (which is probably a very good idea for the immediate future), I'd prefer that a much larger proportion is on less constrained roads :D
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Postby somewhatfoolish » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:33 pm


Gareth wrote:2:01 seemed an odd line into the right bend just after passing the on-coming car, seemed to compromise the exit of the bend and possibly the set up for the next bend.


I think that's partly an artefact of said crappy stand, but yep.

Gareth wrote:3:06 thought you could have taken a wider line approaching the entry for the left bend, making for a nicer line cutting back in to the left on the exit.


Completely agree - I was a bit wary though given the queue of traffic, had one of them gone for the overtake then they would be reaching me earlier and said line is possibly risky. Although perhaps over cuatious.

Gareth wrote:3:48 you made a much nicer job on the entry to this left bend although you seemed to choose to move wide on the exit rather than drifting wide as part of the cornering, making it seem like a policy decision rather than because there was any benefit.


Yeah it was just for smoothness, I didn't feel I had the visibility to commit to using the entire road at the point where I entered the bend.

Gareth wrote:4:21 another odd line into a right bend which didn't buy any benefit as you seemed uncertain in your positioning prior to over-taking. I suspect not cutting the entry of the bend then smoothly moving out to line up for the overtake would have been nicer, making it one manoeuvre rather than two separate.


Totally. In truth, I think this is a sign I wasn't planning far enough ahead.

Gareth wrote:4:53 hard to tell how much the camera foreshortens but it seems you closed up on the motorbike for no gain, and by 5:03 dropping back slightly, which would have possibly been the point to be moving up and slightly wide in preparation for possible overtake. Overall slightly inconsistent in the following distance for this section, I think.


As I say in the commentary, I did get too close to the motorbike initially as I had misjudged his speed. After that, it's more the motorbike accellerating away that is causing the changing gap - no way can I compete with him.

Gareth wrote:9:05 couldn't make out whether there was an entrance on the right immediately after the two car overtake.


Yes, there is, but the nature of it is that no one could have come speeding out of it.

Gareth wrote:12:58 couldn't see why you moved out at that point especially as you were approaching a right turn ... oh, now see a a car reversing out of a drive on the left at 12:57 but by 12:58 it is obscured by glare. Regarding the horn - you might try keeping your left thumb pressed against the nearest horn push area while in the more hazardous parts of built up areas, to make it more hair-triggered.


Nice tip!

Gareth wrote:15:52 onwards following downhill, I think you were in 3rd. Were you braking to maintain the following distance down the hill? Did you consider changing down to 2nd near the top of the hill to hold the car back and stop it gaining speed?


I did consider it, but didn't feel it "worth the bother". It is something I do on some hills.


Gareth wrote:Hard to tell if the camera was solidly mounted laterally since there appeared to be some sudden or slightly rough steering inputs where it wasn't needed. It does seem to me more apparent on left bends though. Maybe the video compression is also having an adverse effect - also hard to tell.


Mounting was poor, pretty much all those "jerks" are an artefact of the filming.

Gareth wrote:YouTube stopped sending at 18:40 so if I get more I may comment further.


Please! (That's directed at others ;))
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Postby somewhatfoolish » Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:39 pm


Gareth wrote:30:34 moving out to gain a view, again at 30:47, and then not returning quicker might have discomforted the on-comer. This sequence also showed that you maintained a contact position while hoping an opportunity would develop.


Yes, that's something I only do on roads I "know" - an opportunity would have developed if there was nothing coming. Do you think that is bad practice in general?

Gareth wrote:35:22 I think I'd have kept more right given the driveways are all on the left in the GLF.


There was a chav behind me, I felt that such positioning would confuse him.

Gareth wrote:40:04 I think you could have already lifted off, possibly before actually passing the first car, since you needed to get in before the cross-roads.


Can't argue with that.

Gareth wrote:40:12 overtake with entrances to the right, although I think you were mentioning this point.


Or that


Gareth wrote:48:xx it struck me that you prefer going fast in a relatively straight line to making a really good job of the bends which, for me, are much more interesting.


That's cause of the glass bottles of beer in the back! Actually I'd quite like to do a lot of that section again for exactly that reason.

Gareth wrote:You seemed to go over speed bumps quicker than I do, but presumably it's your car and your bills :roll:


I think the only speed bumps in the video are around the ford, although I may be misremembering. The roads are bumpy in general :D


Gareth wrote:If I'm going to drive vicariously, (which is probably a very good idea for the immediate future), I'd prefer that a much larger proportion is on less constrained roads :D


I can try to do my best, but that doesn't leave too many options...
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Postby Gareth » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:42 am


somewhatfoolish wrote:
Gareth wrote:2:01

I think that's partly an artefact of said crappy stand, but yep.

Looks better on the stabilised video.

somewhatfoolish wrote:
Gareth wrote:3:48

Yeah it was just for smoothness, I didn't feel I had the visibility to commit to using the entire road at the point where I entered the bend.

Watching the stabilised video, my thoughts are that you turned in a touch early which meant the power was applied slightly late. Someone mentioned in another thread about aiming to touch behind the apex and that thought would have resulted in a nicer line.

somewhatfoolish wrote:
Gareth wrote:9:05

Yes, there is, but the nature of it is that no one could have come speeding out of it.

Was wondering how you'd have felt if a car had poked it's nose out slightly while you were still on the other side of the road. I'm imagining a driver who only looks right before turning left.

somewhatfoolish wrote:
Gareth wrote:30:34

Do you think that is bad practice in general?

I think it is extremely hard to guard against hope in the face of evidence ;-)

somewhatfoolish wrote:
Gareth wrote:35:22

There was a chav behind me, I felt that such positioning would confuse him.

Unless you thought there was the chance he'd overtake I'd suggest a wider line would've improved your safety. If he kept up you could have then eased off and left to allow an overtake.

somewhatfoolish wrote:
Gareth wrote:48:xx

That's cause of the glass bottles of beer in the back! Actually I'd quite like to do a lot of that section again for exactly that reason.

I'd also gained that impression from the part before Tesco but it seemed more obvious here, not least because your comments indicated annoyance!
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Postby somewhatfoolish » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:48 pm


Right... done a 35 min vid this afternoon with commentary the full way through. Just going through uploading it, hopefully should come out alright. Will start a new thread with it as wel.

Unfortunately, used the same setup but I think I secured it a bit better so should be less jerky.
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Postby IVORTHE DRIVER » Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:49 pm


Hi,

Watched a couple of minutes because I had time on my hands, first impression....oh dear :!:

Ignored shaky camera but have to say not impressed with what I saw, corners taken to sharply, almost jerkily, smooth them out...one corner you go in way to deep before turning then exit on the right hand side, why? if you go that deep into a corner you should then be able to exit without crossing the white line.

Folowing the 2nd bike...why so close? , should be obvious you cannot get past due to traffic, bends etc so why tailgate him?, when you do overtake you then have to pull it back quite sharply because you start the overtake too close to his a**e and end up much further past him than was needed, starting from the proper distance would have made for a much smoother overtake...did not watch beyond that sorry, looked like an driver going fast rather than a fast driver.

Might look at the second video, might not
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