Advanced Driving UK

in page 91 of my 'know your traffic signs' book, there is mention of 'older type of motorway signal' with two amber lamps which when flashing indicate that you should drive at no more than 30 mph until you are passed some unspecified hazard.

I've seen lights that look a bit like these at the side of the motorways (such as the eastern half of the M8) positioned next to the emergency telephones.

Is this the same thing? Worryingly, no driver I've spoken to yet seems to have the first clue what these things are for, I can't see any mention of them in the recent highway code. If these are the hazard lights, then will drivers be liable to prosecution for not adhering to the 30 mph speed limit?

If these aren't examples of those hazard lights, then where are they to be found, and how do they differ?

DSGboy wrote:in page 91 of my 'know your traffic signs' book, there is mention of 'older type of motorway signal' with two amber lamps which when flashing indicate that you should drive at no more than 30 mph until you are passed some unspecified hazard.

I've seen lights that look a bit like these at the side of the motorways (such as the eastern half of the M8) positioned next to the emergency telephones.

Is this the same thing

These are indeed the lights it refers to. These were the original warning lights(officially known as the motorwarn unit) used throughout the UK's motorway network, but were replaced through England and Wales during the 1980's with matrix signs (MS1 - now being replaced themselves with the newer MS3). I'd be surprised if there are any left South of the Border. They remain widespread throughout Scotland and are still permitted for use North of the Border in the latest edition of Standards for Highways. Indeed the most recent completed motorway (the M9 Spur) has them installed.

? Worryingly, no driver I've spoken to yet seems to have the first clue what these things are for, I can't see any mention of them in the recent highway code. If these are the hazard lights, then will drivers be liable to prosecution for not adhering to the 30 mph speed limit?

There used to be rule describing the lights in The Highway Code if I am remembering correctly the current edition is the first to remove mention of them. The 30mph is merely advice, it is not a speed limit and has no statutory backing. This is probably just as well as Traffic Scotland seem to like to turn them on if a single droplet of rain fall out the sky, and to be honest trying to do 30mph on a free flowing 2 lane motorway would probably not be very wise.

A driver could not be prosecuted for not observing the advice, although of course a failure to do so could form part of the evidence used to support a prosecution for dangerous or careless driving. I would imagine that the removal of the advice from the Highway Code would make this much harder than it would have been in the past.

The original MS1 lights were designed to be turned on by the police using a kind of remote control, they actually had to drive out to each light and turn it on and off by hand. The current units used in Scotland are controlled remotely by the NADICS control room.

EDIT: The chapter on signalling from the desgn standards manual can be viewed here

Very helpful response michael, thankyou. The removal from the highway code is a puzzling omission given the widespread use of these lights north of the border.

The lack of awareness of this rule in the general public (at least the ones I've spoken to) seems quite worrying. I'd be concerned that if i comply with the lights and go at 30 on the motorway, the 9 of out 10 other drivers unaware or unwilling to comply, will be approaching me at speed from behing (in hazardous conditions).

DSGboy wrote:Worryingly, no driver I've spoken to yet seems to have the first clue what these things are for, I can't see any mention of them in the recent highway code. If these are the hazard lights, then will drivers be liable to prosecution for not adhering to the 30 mph speed limit?

HC 257 talks about amber flashing lights, so everyone should know what's going on.
It sounds like Scotland is trying to save a bit of money by not using modern signs though.

crr003 wrote:It sounds like Scotland is trying to save a bit of money by not using modern signs though.

I have a letter to that effect from the Scottish Executive from about 1997 when the A74(M) was first opened with the Motowarn flashing ambers. However, there are stretches of Scottish Motorways where these lights have been disconnected and are being removed to be replaced with..... nothing.

The advice about doing 30mph when these lights are displayed is also in the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions.

michael769 wrote: matrix signs (MS1 - now being replaced themselves with the newer MS3)

And MS4 in the affluent/effluent South, on the M4 at least.

http://www.highways.gov.uk/knowledge/735.aspx

crr003 wrote:It sounds like Scotland is trying to save a bit of money by not using modern signs though.

<headline news>Scots being a bit tight with cash shocker.</hn>

7db wrote:
<headline news>Scots being a bit tight with cash shocker.</hn>

Yes we prefer to spend the money on useful things like building new roads such as the M74, M80 and M8 completions .

My experience of the roads in Scotland is that they are rubbish and jam packed with traffic, and should be avoided if at all possible.

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:My experience of the roads in Scotland is that they are rubbish and jam packed with traffic, and should be avoided if at all possible.

Definitely. Just don't go there !

The fabulous large and very expensive (£1m each?) matrix signs on the M4 seem to be a waste of money IMO.

Reason? Because numerous times I have seen them showing things like: "Obstruction Ahead - Slow 50" and "Lane Closed Ahead - Slow" or such like for mile after mile (repeated several times) only for there to be nothing. Initially the traffic slows (including me of course) but then when nothing appears, it speeds up.

I complained to the Highways Agency and after a bit of email tennis the HA chap said if the public report an obstruction they have to show the messages until it's confirmed false by a HA Traffic Officer - all due to Corporate Manslaughter/HSE apparently.

I pointed out this is nonsense and makes the signs worse than useless as people will distrust and ignore them to no avail.

The Scots version are unhelpfully switched on all the time too (or so it seems, perhaps that is a reflection on the prevailing weather conditions). Additionally, they seem frequently to be positioned 'behind' the telephone which means that the lower light is obscured for most of the approach towards it.

DSGboy wrote:Very helpful response michael, thankyou. The removal from the highway code is a puzzling omission given the widespread use of these lights north of the border.

Roll on Independance

On the M90 they trialed a system with flashing posts on the hard shoulder, about 100m apart. Never seen them anywhere else though. Big Err should be able to give more info on them

Renny wrote:
On the M90 they trialed a system with flashing posts on the hard shoulder, about 100m apart. Never seen them anywhere else though. Big Err should be able to give more info on them

There was also a trial on the M8 of illuminated colour changing cats-eyes.

http://culturalcommission.org/Resource/ ... 043313.pdf

for the M90 tial

The M8 had a trial of hard wired road studs, but I cant recall which section and I don't know if a report on the trial has been produced.