| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
ROG
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 1148
Location: LEICESTER
Direct link for this post
|
 Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: Can you folks answer this... now more info....... |
 |
|
If a non ADI is supervising a learner is there a legal requirement for the supervising licence holder to be able to drive the vehicle.
I found this lot below which says about control in an emergency but it does not say anything about the supervisor being obliged to drive if the learner got into difficulty.
Statutory Instrument 1996 No. 1997
The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 1996
1996 No. 1997
ROAD TRAFFIC
The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 1996
Made 23rd July 1996
Laid before Parliament 6th August 1996
Coming into force 9th September 1996
The Secretary of State for Transport, in exercise of the powers conferred on him by sections 97(3)[1], 105, and 108(1)[2] of the Road Traffic Act 1988, after consulting with representative organisations in accordance with section 195(2) of that Act, hereby makes the following Regulations:—
1. These Regulations may be cited as the Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 1996 and shall come into force on 9th September 1996.
2. Regulation 9(6) of the Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1987[3] shall be amended in accordance with the following regulations.
3.—(1) The definition of "leg disability" shall be omitted.
(2) For the definition of "qualified driver" there shall be substituted—
""qualified driver" means—
(a) in the case of the supervision of the driver of a motor car by a person whose licence is limited by virtue of a notice served under section 92(5)(b) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 to vehicles of a particular class, a person who holds a full licence authorising him to drive a motor car of a class falling within the same category as the motor car being driven by the holder of the provisional licence and who would in an emergency be able to take control of the steering and braking functions of that motor car,
(b) in any other case, a person who holds a full licence authorising him to drive a motor vehicle of the same class as the vehicle being driven by the holder of the provisional licence,
and who is either—
(i) at least 21 years of age and has held the licence referred to above for an aggregate period of 3 years or more, or
(ii) a member of the armed services of the Crown acting in the course of his duties for naval, military or air force purposes."
Signed by authority of the Secretary of State for Transport
Steven Norris
Parliamentary Under Secretary of State, Department of Transport
23rd July 1996
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EXPLANATORY NOTE
(This note is not part of the Regulations)
These regulations further amend regulation 9(6) of the Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1987 by providing that, subject to one special condition, any person with a disability may be a "qualified driver" for the purpose of supervising a learner driver in a motor car. The special condition (in addition to general conditions as to age and experience) is that he must be able to take control of the braking and steering of the car in an emergency.
This provision replaces the previous regulation, which permitted only persons suffering from leg disabilities to act as supervisors (whether or not they could take control in an emergency).
_________________
ROG
Civilian Advanced Driver
Senior Observer
Leicester Group of Advanced Motorists
UNEMPLOYED LGV instructor
Last edited by ROG on Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:32 pm; edited 3 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
jont
Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 925
Location: Bristol
Direct link for this post
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Not without a login to that forum...  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MGF
Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 921
Location: Warwickshire
Direct link for this post
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
Section 92 of RTA 198 refers to disabled drivers who have limitations on their entitlement to drive.
You can ignore 2 (a) of these regs with regards to other supervisors. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ROG
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 1148
Location: LEICESTER
Direct link for this post
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MGF wrote: | Section 92 of RTA 198 refers to disabled drivers who have limitations on their entitlement to drive.
You can ignore 2 (a) of these regs with regards to other supervisors. |
So does that mean that the supervising driver MUST drive the vehicle if the learner is unable to for any reason 
_________________
ROG
Civilian Advanced Driver
Senior Observer
Leicester Group of Advanced Motorists
UNEMPLOYED LGV instructor |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crr003
Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 1261
Location: Wirral
Direct link for this post
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ROG wrote: | | So does that mean that the supervising driver MUST drive the vehicle if the learner is unable to for any reason |
I can't see it being a MUST - what about insurance? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ROG
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 1148
Location: LEICESTER
Direct link for this post
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| crr003 wrote: | | ROG wrote: | | So does that mean that the supervising driver MUST drive the vehicle if the learner is unable to for any reason |
I can't see it being a MUST - what about insurance? |
Bit more explanation for you folks -
LGV artic on normal work duties with a fully licenced driver at the wheel.
After doing the legal maximum of 10 hours driving and still having enough duty time left the driver then puts L plates on it and a CE provisional driver takes over the driving.
The licenced driver then sits in the passenger seat as the supervising driver.
All insurance and everything else is sorted and legal.
At some point the learner gets into difficulty.
The supervising driver cannot legally drive as he has used up all his driving hours.
Can he legally supervise as he cannot drive the truck
Does a supervising driver have a legal obligation to drive a vehicle that gets into difficulty when a learner is being supervised
_________________
ROG
Civilian Advanced Driver
Senior Observer
Leicester Group of Advanced Motorists
UNEMPLOYED LGV instructor |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jbsportstech
Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 344
Location: Somerset
Direct link for this post
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
as a matter of course I wont supervise anyone without knowing I can take over driving the vehicle legally.
_________________
Regards James
Member of Southwest RoADAR
www.fordstownersclub.co.uk
To the average driver 'safe' is not having accidents. To an advanced driver 'safe' is not being vunerable to an accident. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jont
Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 925
Location: Bristol
Direct link for this post
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| jbsportstech wrote: | | as a matter of course I wont supervise anyone without knowing I can take over driving the vehicle legally. |
So you have insurance on all your associates cars? Or are you relying on third party other cars cover? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jbsportstech
Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 344
Location: Somerset
Direct link for this post
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I ment in the contex of leaner I always make sure that I am covered on their vehicle and I have only taught two people.
In the contex of associate in that sitaution I would rely on my 3rd party cover. My mum's saab is cover for anyone over 25 as my sister older drives it and her husband who doesnt have his own 3rd party cover so she had to get it. She only took it out when last year when I turned 25 tho.
_________________
Regards James
Member of Southwest RoADAR
www.fordstownersclub.co.uk
To the average driver 'safe' is not having accidents. To an advanced driver 'safe' is not being vunerable to an accident. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chriskay
Joined: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 427
Location: Shrewsbury
Direct link for this post
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jbsportstech wrote: |
In the contex of associate in that sitaution I would rely on my 3rd party cover. |
That's a bit risky isn't it? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ROG
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 1148
Location: LEICESTER
Direct link for this post
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| chriskay wrote: | | jbsportstech wrote: |
In the contex of associate in that sitaution I would rely on my 3rd party cover. |
That's a bit risky isn't it? |
If the observer has fully comp and is allowed to drive anothers car on third party WITH THEIR PERMISSION then it should not be a problem.
If however, an EMERGENCY situation was to occur - lets say the associate had a medical emergency and the best solution was to take them to hospital - then I would think that the authorities would take that into consideration if pulled.
I'm still waiting for an answer to -
Does a supervising driver have a legal obligation to drive a vehicle that gets into difficulty when a learner is being supervised
_________________
ROG
Civilian Advanced Driver
Senior Observer
Leicester Group of Advanced Motorists
UNEMPLOYED LGV instructor |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chriskay
Joined: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 427
Location: Shrewsbury
Direct link for this post
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ROG wrote: | | chriskay wrote: | | jbsportstech wrote: |
In the contex of associate in that sitaution I would rely on my 3rd party cover. |
That's a bit risky isn't it? |
If the observer has fully comp and is allowed to drive anothers car on third party WITH THEIR PERMISSION then it should not be a problem.
|
Of course it's not a problem: until the observer swerves to avoid an animal & writes off £10,000 worth of car which is at the time only covered 3rd. party. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
waremark
Joined: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 838
Direct link for this post
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Why would an observer drive an associates car? I reckon it would have to be a pretty serious emergency to justify driving someone else's car on 3rd party only, unless you are rich enough to pay for the worst that can happen. It would be normal to use one's own car for demos, and there are even insurance issues with that (it may not be covered by normal 'social domestic and pleasure puposes' insurance). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chriskay
Joined: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 427
Location: Shrewsbury
Direct link for this post
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ROG wrote: |
I'm still waiting for an answer to -
Does a supervising driver have a legal obligation to drive a vehicle that gets into difficulty when a learner is being supervised |
I can't conceive of any circumstances where anyone (well, any civilian anyway) could have a legal obligation to drive any vehicle not belonging to him/her. Whether they might have a moral obligation is a different matter. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ROG
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 1148
Location: LEICESTER
Direct link for this post
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Senario -
The supervising driver is in the passenger seat of their own car.
They have a broken foot and hand and cannot physically drive the car.
The learner is a family member
Is the supervising driver legal as they cannot take over the driving if the learner gets into difficulty
_________________
ROG
Civilian Advanced Driver
Senior Observer
Leicester Group of Advanced Motorists
UNEMPLOYED LGV instructor |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Forum Search
Join ADUK
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
