What is the harm in downshifting gears and braking during th

crossword · Joined: 14 Jul 2008 Posts: 15

What is the harm in downshifting gears and braking during the turn instead of before?

earlier I asked a question in the advanced forum about turning and was told:

“Strictly speaking it is better to complete the braking and gear change before starting to turn. This is one of 'rules' of British advanced driving, and it is designed to increase the level of safety. However most British drivers don't do it this way, and end up braking into the turn and then changing gear as they have nearly finished turning.”

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well i'm practicing driving and I find when I downshift into a lower gear (2nd) well before the turn, the car goes too slow for me to control properly. It seems to make more sense to downshift just before the turn.

Also, I find I have greater control of the car when i'm braking as I turn. Cos you never know what is coming from the other side. You simply cant see whats on the other side till you turn. Thats why I feel safer having my feet on clutch and brake as I am actually turning.

I dont understand why that is considered wrong or less safe than completing the braking and gear change before starting to turn.

How do you guys do it?

ROG · Joined: 08 Oct 2006 Posts: 1119 Location: LEICESTER

Brake then gear then steer - as long as each part has been completed before going to the next part, then I do not see a problem unless someone is trying to slow you down early because your approach speed is toooooo fast
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ROG
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Leicester Group of Advanced Motorists
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Custom24 · Joined: 15 Feb 2008 Posts: 130

waremark · Joined: 15 Apr 2006 Posts: 752

Additional points in favour of completing the braking before the gear change, and completing the gear change before starting to steer:

1. In the great majority of bends, speed is limited by vision not cornering grip, to the speed which allows you to stop in the distance you can see to tbe clear. Your shortest vision is before you start to turn - by the time you get to the bend you are already starting to see round it. Therefore it makes sense for your slowest speed to be before you start to turn; once you have started to turn you want to be on the gas to maintain at least a constant speed unless the bend tightens. If you were able to stop in the distance you could see before you started to turn, you don't need to slow any more.

2. Changing gear during the turn not only makes more demands on you, but may destabilise the car.

3. You may not be ready to accelerate as the view opens towards the end of the bend - early acceleration makes more difference to your progress than late braking.

4. If you plan to complete your braking well before the bend or other hazard, you have a safety margin in hand should you have misjudged it.

All this having been said, many expert drivers 'trail brake' blending the end of braking into steering into the turn - although it would be unusual to make the down-change after starting to turn.

TripleS

7db · Joined: 06 Apr 2006 Posts: 1775 Location: London

Porker · Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 517 Location: Essex

Dave

From my perspective, I think you might do well to reduce the level of sarcasm employed in some of your posts, specifically those where you're having a pop at what are generally advocated as "advanced" techniques.

In the final analysis, your way of doing things has been tested for 50 years and perhaps 500,000 to 1,000,000 miles. The approach outlined in Roadcraft has been in use for around 75 years and several tens of billions of miles, if not much more.

I don't care much whether you choose to adopt some of it, all of it or none of it. However, your desire to dismiss it out of hand seems somewhat arrogant to say the least. I would liken that approach to someone who's managed not to crash a light aircraft for a few years believing that they can teach the RAF a thing or two about flying.

Please remember that there are a lot of us out there doing our best to reduce the chances of those who come for advanced coaching having a crash which might be a life-changing event for them or someone else. Dismissing the approach we advocate in favour of one which suggests doing whatever they like because it hasn't failed *yet* is not especially constructive, not least because every big crash is preceded by many occasions where the flawed method employed didn't let the driver down.

regards
P.

fungus · Joined: 17 Feb 2008 Posts: 78 Location: Dorset

Get it wrong, enter bend too fast, steering and changing gear at the same time, extra braking needed because of unexpected hazard. Think of the outcome. Weight is thrown onto the front wheel on the outside of the curve causing more instability. The car could spin or skid.

Remember a vehicle is at its most stable when traveling in a straight line under gentle power. As you turn in to negotiate a bend you scrub off speed, and the weight of the car shifts towards the outside of the bend. To lessen this effect, as you turn in, apply enough gas to maintain your speed, having already adjusted your speed so as to be able to stop within the distance you can see to be clear, on your side of the road. Increase the amount of acceleration as the bend opens out and your view of the road ahead increases.

With practice you will find that your cornering becomes smoother, and you make better progress out of the corner.

Nigel ADI
IAM car

fungus · Joined: 17 Feb 2008 Posts: 78 Location: Dorset

Crossword, you say that you are practicing driving. Does that mean you are a provisional licence holder, preparing for the DSA driving test. Or are you a full licence holder wishing to improve your driving technique?

Nigel ADI
IAM car

Gareth · Joined: 15 Apr 2006 Posts: 1214 Location: Berkshire

As per crossword's original message, crossword is learning to drive in India.
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fungus · Joined: 17 Feb 2008 Posts: 78 Location: Dorset

Thanks for puting in the picture Gareth.

The technique Crossword describes would certainly not go down well on a British driving test.

Nigel ADI
IAM car

crossword · Joined: 14 Jul 2008 Posts: 15

Thanks for your input, everyone. How much before the turn should I brake and change gears? I seem to be doing it too early which is why I feel the car crawls when I need enough control over it to make it to the turn.

crossword · Joined: 14 Jul 2008 Posts: 15

I also hesitate to accelerate into a turn because then I’d be going a bit fast and wouldn’t be able to stop in time in case something came in the way.

ScoobyChris · Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 1197 Location: Andover, Hants

Gareth · Joined: 15 Apr 2006 Posts: 1214 Location: Berkshire