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Lady Godiva
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 368
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 Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: Headlights not required at night! |
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Dear All - I've just seen rule 113 in the highway code, which states that:
You MUST:
1) ensure sidelights are lit between sunrise an sunset.
2) use headlights at night, except on a road that has street lighting. These roads are genraly restricted to a speed limit of 30mph unless otherwise stated.
So, does this mean that you can drive in a built up area at night with just your sidelights on? No headlights required?
Regards
Sally |
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vonhosen
Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 1687
Location: Behind you !
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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Yep in the 30's (streetlamps) you can use just side lights.
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dth
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: Headlights not required at night! |
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| Lady Godiva wrote: | | So, does this mean that you can drive in a built up area at night with just your sidelights on? No headlights required? |
As Van says, yes from a legal point of view! From a safety aspect, some more thinking is required!! 
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MGF
Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 873
Location: Warwickshire
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Although not an offence in itself, not using dipped lights at night is contrary to the Highway Code and this has been used against drivers in civil cases. |
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Oddball
Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Posts: 69
Location: West Wilts
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: Headlights not required at night! |
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| Lady Godiva wrote: | You MUST:
1) ensure sidelights are lit between sunrise an sunset.
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This is a new one on me! |
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Custom24
Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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There is some merit to just driving with sidelights in a 30 area where the streetlamps are good, but only if everyone does it. It make pedestrians and other hazards easier to see by reducing the glare from oncoming vehicles, and dipped beams in well lit areas don't really show you any more of the road than you would otherwise see.
In terms of being seen, sidelights are plenty.
I used to try it for a while, but there was no point because no one else (or very few) do and the other problem was I sometimes found myself forgetting to put back on my dipped beams immediately when leaving the lit up area.
Nowadays, especially when the streetlamps are poor, and there obviously is no oncomers and I'm not blinding anyone, I sometimes use my full beams in 30 areas, even with streetlamps. Some voice at the back of my head is telling me this is against HC, but the wording does not specifically prohibit it. Am I OK to do this? |
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ScoobyChris
Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 1197
Location: Andover, Hants
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Custom24 wrote: | | Nowadays, especially when the streetlamps are poor, and there obviously is no oncomers and I'm not blinding anyone, I sometimes use my full beams in 30 areas, even with streetlamps. Some voice at the back of my head is telling me this is against HC, but the wording does not specifically prohibit it. Am I OK to do this? |
I'll do similar as it seems daft to not have as much light available to see as possible and also be seen earlier by other cars. If there is anyone who could be inconvenienced, I drop back down to dipped beam....
Chris |
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michael769
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 213
Location: Livingston
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Headlights not required at night! |
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| Oddball wrote: | | Lady Godiva wrote: | You MUST:
1) ensure sidelights are lit between sunrise an sunset.
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This is a new one on me! |
It was introduced in (I think) the late '80s early '90s. Prior to that it was "at night" which was defined to be 1/2 hour after sunset (known as lighting up time) to 1/2 hour before sunrise. As far as I can make out this "at night" requirement is the one that still applies to headlamps on unlit roads.
EDIT: The mid '90s Highway Code advised that to reduce glare, if your car was fitted with dim dip lights you should use only those on well lit roads. |
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Lady Godiva
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 368
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| MGF wrote: | | Although not an offence in itself, not using dipped lights at night is contrary to the Highway Code and this has been used against drivers in civil cases. |
Dear MGF - in what way? I'm a bit confused (no change there then); if the HC says that you can drive on sidelights only, how could it be used against you (assuming the visibility was more than 100 metres as specified).
Regards
Sally |
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michael769
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 213
Location: Livingston
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| Lady Godiva wrote: | | MGF wrote: | | Although not an offence in itself, not using dipped lights at night is contrary to the Highway Code and this has been used against drivers in civil cases. |
Dear MGF - in what way? I'm a bit confused (no change there then); if the HC says that you can drive on sidelights only, how could it be used against you (assuming the visibility was more than 100 metres as specified).
Regards
Sally |
The Highway Code advises that you should dipped lights at night in built up areas unless the lighting is very good:
(EDIT for source:)
| The Highway Code Rule 115 wrote: |
You should also:
* use dipped headlights, or dim-dip if fitted, at night in built-up areas and in dull daytime weather, to ensure that you can be seen
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As an example if, in the dark,a driver emerged from a side road and caused you to collide with him, he might argue that he was unable to see you as you only had your sidelights on and this was insufficient for the conditions (for example he might argue that the glare from other vehicles headlamps masked your presence). He could then rely on the advice in The Highway Code to argue that you should have been aware of the need to be using your headlamps.
If a court found, on the balance of the probabilities, that his argument was convincing this could lead to a civil action against you being successful. |
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PeterE
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 108
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Custom24 wrote: | | There is some merit to just driving with sidelights in a 30 area where the streetlamps are good, but only if everyone does it. |
I think this is a key point – if everyone does it, it's fine, but if only a proportion of drivers do, they place themselves at a significant disadvantage. When I had a car with dim-dip lights I did use them in well-lit urban areas, but I found that other drivers were more likely to pull out in front of me.
I still think dim-dips were quite bright enough for lit urban streets and it's a pity the EU forced us to scrap them in the name of harmonisation.
Going back to the 1960s it was the norm to use sidelights only in lit, built-up areas. It is only since then that drivers have been progressively encouraged to use dipped headlights.
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Peter
"No matter how elaborate the rules might be, there is not a glimmer of hope that they can cover the infinite variation in real driving situations." (Stephen Haley, from "Mind Driving") |
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Slink_Pink
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Posts: 36
Location: Herts
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Custom24 wrote: |
In terms of being seen, sidelights are plenty.
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I disagree. I only ever use my side lights if my vehicle is parked. If conditions are anything other than optimum, I don't think that an oncoming vehicle using only side lights is any more easly seen than an unlit one. It just gives that driver the impression that (s)he's more visible than they really are.
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Need I remind you, 007, that you have a license to kill, not to break the traffic laws. |
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7db
Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 1775
Location: London
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I have a certain amount of sympathy for people just with sidelights on -- makes them much less likely to dazzle me than those with one light only on full beam (common round here). And it seems that a lot of headlights are poorly or inconsiderately set so that lower down users are dazzled by them. |
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TripleS
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 2598
Location: Whitby, North Yorkshire
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| 7db wrote: | | I have a certain amount of sympathy for people just with sidelights on -- makes them much less likely to dazzle me than those with one light only on full beam (common round here). And it seems that a lot of headlights are poorly or inconsiderately set so that lower down users are dazzled by them. |
What you need is a nice big 4x4, and then you can rise above it all. 
We do see an awful lot of misuse of lights though, and I must say I find it somewhat irritating. People driving about in gloomy conditions with no lights at all, and then people with headlights and front foglights on in brilliant sunshine!
....and then there are the lorry drivers (and others) parked in a lay-by for their coffee break, leaving their headlights on causing other people to dip for them until they realise what the situation is. 
Best wishes all,
Dave. |
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Malky
Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: Headlights not required at night! |
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1) ensure sidelights are lit between sunrise an sunset.
This is a new one on me!
Perhaps she is talking about the soon to be compulsory Daytime Driving Lamps!!
I remember the time was one could drive with side-lights in a 40 mph zone, if the streetlamps allowed this. Then they changed it to 50 mph. Now they advise at 30 mph. I love the indecision of the Highway Code depending on issue.
Regards
Malky |
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