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martine
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
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Location: Bristol, UK
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 Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject: Lorries and speed limits |
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Showing my ignorance (again  )...
1) HGVs are supposed to do max. 40mph on a single carriageway (that would be 60 for a car)...is this because their stopping distance is much more or just because of their size?
2) Also why are they supposed to do max. of 50 on dual carriageways (70 for a car)?
3) Also why are they speed-limited to 56 yet the Highway code says they can legally do 60 on an m-way?
Yours,
confused of Bristol.
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MGF
Joined: 29 Jun 2006
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Location: Warwickshire
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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no 3) is simple.
Max speeds for passenger and goods vehicles are standard across the EU (100 and 90 km/h respectively).
62 and 56 are the rounded equivalents in MPH. |
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ROG
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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Location: LEICESTER
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject: Re: Lorries and speed limits |
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| martine wrote: | Showing my ignorance (again )...
1) HGVs are supposed to do max. 40mph on a single carriageway (that would be 60 for a car)...is this because their stopping distance is much more or just because of their size?
2) Also why are they supposed to do max. of 50 on dual carriageways (70 for a car)?
3) Also why are they speed-limited to 56 yet the Highway code says they can legally do 60 on an m-way?
Yours,
confused of Bristol. |
1) This stems from the days when trucks had cable brakes - ever seen the film 'Hell Drivers'   
and yes, it is now stupid for such a blanket speed limit where some, not all, A roads are safe enough for trucks to do 50 or 56
 Simple solution to this is just a new road sign with a pic of a truck and a 50 in it - same sign containing a red stripe through to end the 50 truck limit
2) Duals - another daft idea - I cannot think of one dual where raising the limit from 50 to 56 in a NSL would be a safety prob
3} 60 is UK law - 56 is EU truck limiter speed law.
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Big Err
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 631
Location: Kinross, Scotland
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: Lorries and speed limits |
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| ROG wrote: | | This stems from the days when trucks had cable brakes -. |
I didn't think that the hgv limits were that old? 
| ROG wrote: | | Simple solution to this is just a new road sign with a pic of a truck and a 50 in it - same sign containing a red stripe through to end the 50 truck limit . |
More signs......... |
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MGF
Joined: 29 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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I believe HGV limits were brought in with the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.
The Dft have some info here justifying lower limits for vans which may be helpful. |
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daz6215
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
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Location: Newcastle
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: Lorries and speed limits |
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| martine wrote: | Showing my ignorance (again )...
1) HGVs are supposed to do max. 40mph on a single carriageway (that would be 60 for a car)...is this because their stopping distance is much more or just because of their size?
2) Also why are they supposed to do max. of 50 on dual carriageways (70 for a car)?
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Probably the same reason cars are restricted when pulling weight i.e caravans and trailers.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070304
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martine
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 1406
Location: Bristol, UK
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| MGF wrote: | no 3) is simple.
Max speeds for passenger and goods vehicles are standard across the EU (100 and 90 km/h respectively).
62 and 56 are the rounded equivalents in MPH. |
Well yes but why doesn't the h/c and UK law show 56 then?
I guess ROG is the most qualified to comment on why have lower limits at all...so, in practice ROG, would a fully laden modern high performance artic stop in anything like the h/c car stopping distances? My guess would be not...but I just don't know.
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daz6215
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martine
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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OK but why not change the law (and highway code) to suit?
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daz6215
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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the way i pick it up is if the vehicle is over a certain age and is for uk domestic use only it could do the 60mph instead of the 56! could be wrong though!
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jont
Joined: 07 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| martine wrote: | | I guess ROG is the most qualified to comment on why have lower limits at all...so, in practice ROG, would a fully laden modern high performance artic stop in anything like the h/c car stopping distances? My guess would be not...but I just don't know. |
You mean like comparing a modern Lexus to the Ford Anglia that the HC distances were set according to?
HGV legislation will have to cater for any age HGV on the road. I don't see car limits increasing to allow for all the additional safety equipment modern cars have, so why would HGVs be any different? |
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daz6215
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| martine wrote: | | MGF wrote: | no 3) is simple.
Max speeds for passenger and goods vehicles are standard across the EU (100 and 90 km/h respectively).
62 and 56 are the rounded equivalents in MPH. |
Well yes but why doesn't the h/c and UK law show 56 then?
I guess ROG is the most qualified to comment on why have lower limits at all...so, in practice ROG, would a fully laden modern high performance artic stop in anything like the h/c car stopping distances? My guess would be not...but I just don't know. |
http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/advice/driving/truck_braking.htm
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MGF
Joined: 29 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| martine wrote: | | MGF wrote: | no 3) is simple.
Max speeds for passenger and goods vehicles are standard across the EU (100 and 90 km/h respectively).
62 and 56 are the rounded equivalents in MPH. |
Well yes but why doesn't the h/c and UK law show 56 then? |
VOSA anticipate it will change but it wasn't necessary to do so to implement the legislation.
| martine wrote: | | I guess ROG is the most qualified to comment on why have lower limits at all... |
As qualified as the DfT? |
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ROG
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| martine wrote: |
OK but why not change the law (and highway code) to suit? |
There is currently a PROPOSAL to do just that 
The proposal is to set a new legal max limit of 56 mph for all vehicles over 3.5 tonnes including coaches & buses regardless of whether they have a limiter fitted or not.
It WAS due to come into force on 1 Jan this year but................
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martine
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:41 am Post subject: |
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[quote="daz6215"http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/advice/driving/truck_braking.htm[/quote]
Excellent link thanks.
So lorries do take longer to stop (surprise, surprise) but the also report is highlights the poor braking technology on some of them. I was also surprise how much distance vary between them.
I suppose given the fantastic technology now available it would in theory be possible for a fully laden 40t artic to be made to stop in the same distance as a modern family car...just a question of cost I guess.
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