Technique when turning right at traffic lights with filter

mawallace · Joined: 16 Oct 2007 Posts: 20

In our local town there is a road T junction controlled by traffic lights.

approaching it from the west, you can go straight on or turn right.

The traffic lights show green on the two roads so you can go straight on or turn right. At the same time the traffic in the opposite way get a green so they can go straight on or turn left.

Occasionally, depending on traffic, when coming from the west, a green filter light will come on - the traffic in the opposite direction get a red so you can safely turn right.

Often, this does not happen.

the local council says it is by design, and you should cross the lights when they turn green and sit in the middle of the junction until the way is clear. they claim that even if you are still sitting in the middle of the junction when the lights are red, its ok because you passed the lights at green and you have the ability to complete the right turn before the traffic comes out of the junction.

What "advanced" advice can you give?
BTW link to said junction below:-

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=113582765086702614188.00045287d868c1cadb77d&ll=52.245815,0.717094&spn=0.001169,0.002339&t=h&z=19

ScoobyChris · Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 1033 Location: Andover, Hants

There is a similar junction in Winchester. Here, the road traffic is turning into tends to get jammed up very quickly (thanks to another set of lights and a one way system) which often leaves cars stranded in the middle of the junction with nowhere to go.

My own approach is to move the car forward during the green phase (in line with other road user's expectations) but keep myself sufficiently far back that should an opening not present itself during the green or filter phases, I'm left in a safe and reasonably comfortable position.

Chris

martine · Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1267 Location: Bristol, UK

The council's advice seems pretty standard to me...do I take it you feel vulnerable when stuck in the middle?

I think it's sensible to make sure your observation is top quality when you go to move forward - as pedestrians and other road users may not be awake to you traversing the junction when everything else has stopped at red lights.

I frequently turn as a junction similar to this in Bristol and it's yet to be a problem for me (famous last words) just be alert all around. (the world needs more 'lerts').
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Martin - Bristol IAM Group Senior Observer and Secretary.

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner · Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 507 Location: Swindon, Wilts

Sometimes you can be conned ...

On the Bristol driving day, my co-driver asked me for a little commentary so he could judge what kind of things to put in his own. I started at some lights where we were turning right. As we approached the lights, they turned green. The traffic on the other side didn't set off immediately, so I confidently started turning right, commencing commentary as I did "I can see the oncoming traffic is held by their red light, so I'm making my right ... eek!" as at that moment they did set off! Commentary was paused for a second while some more throttle was applied, and resumed when we were safely out of the way Very Happy

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Nick
North Wilts RoADAR

Jack Russell · Joined: 13 Aug 2006 Posts: 113 Location: East Barnet

Renny · Joined: 27 Apr 2006 Posts: 366 Location: Fife, Scotland

7db · Joined: 06 Apr 2006 Posts: 1691 Location: London

AnalogueAndy · Joined: 11 Mar 2008 Posts: 40

We've one locally that I persuaded the Council to paint a yellow box on (looks like a cross-roads but the road to the north is actually a 'no entry' cycle lane):

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=113582765086702614188.00045287d868c1cadb77d&ll=52.245815,0.717094&spn=0.001169,0.002339&t=h&z=19

If you zoom in even closer you can see they've even painted 'give way' markings on the edge of the box to indicate to right turning traffic they have to give way to oncoming (when there's no green filter arrow).

Until recently (when the ATS pole was flattened!) it also included an instruction plate!

My advice: start planning on approach, use your local knowledge on likely traffic volumes and flows...plenty of obs, how much traffic is there in the road you are planning to turn into, how much ahead planning to turn, anyone behind you, how are they driving? Don't forget your shoulder checks for bikes. Keep up the obs, including if you find yourself stopped at red.

(If you zoom out in my example above there is a secondary school 400m to the south: at 8.30am and 3.45pm on school days, the buses are dropping off and you can guarantee the road will be at a standstill - the road will be blocked, no point in getting into the junction and fouling it up (as most do! Evil or Very Mad

) indeed you might possibly have to wait for as long as two or three phases of the lights before you get a gap).

If your exit is clear and likely to stay that way, or if you have identified the gap you are going to move into, as soon as the lights turn green, move slowly past the 'stop' line to take up position ready to turn. If there is no gap, hang back, be patient, you might have to wait for the next phase.

Be ready to go as soon as there is a safe gap, including after the lights have changed to red if you've passed the 'stop' line.

AnalogueAndy · Joined: 11 Mar 2008 Posts: 40

Soorrry:oops:

Here's the right map:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=brougham+hayes,+bath&sll=52.245815,0.717094&sspn=0.000772,0.001615&ie=UTF8&ll=51.381128,-2.374261&spn=0.000393,0.000807&t=h&z=20&msa=0&msid=113582765086702614188.00045287d868c1cadb77d

fungus · Joined: 17 Feb 2008 Posts: 34 Location: Dorset

Refer to the Highway Code. Green means go if the way is clear. As, long as your exit road is clear go on green and take up position to make your turn. Even if there is a right filter, go on green and wait to make your turn, the filter might not be phased in at that time of day.

There was a letter in one of the driving instructor magazines a couple of years ago from an instructor whos pupil had failed his driving test for this very reason. The instructor was taking issue about this, stating that the examiner was wrong to fail his pupil. On reading further it transpired that the pupil had missed two opprtunities to make progress, thereby holding up following vehicles.

7db · Joined: 06 Apr 2006 Posts: 1691 Location: London

There's a few junctions which I drive regularly like this where the straight on light is an arrow so you'll have to wait for the filter to cross the stop line. Worth checking!

<esoteric>But would you turn your wheels whilst waiting to turn right?</esoteric>

MGF · Joined: 29 Jun 2006 Posts: 718 Location: Warwickshire

I usually do although some advise against it to prevent you being shunted into the incoming traffic...

Oddball · Joined: 06 Apr 2008 Posts: 63 Location: West Wilts

7db · Joined: 06 Apr 2006 Posts: 1691 Location: London

But what if you need to turn your wheels early to (by the geometry of the corner) make it round?

TripleS · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:55 pm Post subject: