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martine
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
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Location: Bristol, UK
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 Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:19 pm Post subject: IAM on BBC1's Panorama - 28th July - shock, horror... |
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IAM Fleet's Head of Training: Simon Elstow will appear on BBC1's flagship current affairs program: Panorama on Monday 28th July...Hurrah!
Unfortunately he will be talking about eco-driving...booo!!! 
Wouldn't it be good to get the IAM actually talking about advanced driving, road safety, the enjoyment of driving well, driver education, making progress etc.
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jasonh
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:46 am Post subject: |
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That would be nice!
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ROG
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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Location: LEICESTER
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Wouldn't it be good to get the IAM actually talking about advanced driving, road safety, the enjoyment of driving well, driver education, making progress etc. |
That would be boring journalism to the viewing public.
ECO driving - saving MONEY - much more topical & TV friendly - won't save lives, only fuel/money - much more important  
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ROG
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redrobo
Joined: 24 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:14 am Post subject: |
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Head of Fleet Training should be a clue  |
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Jonathan
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
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Location: Surrey
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:13 am Post subject: |
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I don't know. I think once filling stations start offering finance (!) Eco Driving is going to become more and more of a a hot topic - you only have to look at the number of magazine & television features on the subject recently. If that gets a few more people interested in AD it's no bad thing.
But yes, the concept that one can actually take any pleasure from driving still seems to be completely lost on the media at large.  |
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Horse
Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 495
Location: Darkest Berkshoire
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| ROG wrote: | | Quote: | | Wouldn't it be good to get the IAM actually talking about advanced driving, road safety, the enjoyment of driving well, driver education, making progress etc. |
That would be boring journalism to the viewing public.
ECO driving - saving MONEY - much more topical & TV friendly - won't save lives, only fuel/money - much more important |
Indeed!
Wouldn't want the public to know the black arts of long-distance forward observation, planning, smooth driving, appropriate gears, acceleration sense . . . 
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ScoobyChris
Joined: 01 May 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:42 am Post subject: Re: IAM on BBC1's Panorama - 28th July - shock, horror... |
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| martine wrote: | | Unfortunately he will be talking about eco-driving...booo!!! |
But the standard recruitment process for the IAM doesn't appear to be working so maybe luring people in by offering to "teach" them the art of eco-driving and saving money (which I imagine is pretty high on most people's lists in the current climate).
Maybe my understanding of eco-driving is different to others, but I thought it involved a high-degree of forward planning, hazard awareness and observation, correct, smooth use of gears to balance efficiency and flexibility, and progress ... which is pretty much what IAM/RoSPA expect in the exam isn't it?
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martine
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
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Location: Bristol, UK
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: IAM on BBC1's Panorama - 28th July - shock, horror... |
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| ScoobyChris wrote: | | But the standard recruitment process for the IAM doesn't appear to be working so maybe luring people in by offering to "teach" them the art of eco-driving and saving money (which I imagine is pretty high on most people's lists in the current climate). |
Yes but I suspect it will appeal to the older driver. I really keen to attract younger drivers 'eco-driving' does nothing for the IAMs image. We shouldn't shirk selling driver education, making progress, driving fun - it's a bit like the IAM's current dabbling with cycle training - wrong, wrong, wrong!
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Horse
Joined: 05 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: IAM on BBC1's Panorama - 28th July - shock, horror... |
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| ScoobyChris wrote: | | Maybe my understanding of eco-driving is different to others, but I thought it involved a high-degree of forward planning, hazard awareness and observation, correct, smooth use of gears to balance efficiency and flexibility, and progress ... which is pretty much what IAM/RoSPA expect in the exam isn't it? |
See my post ^ there
And getting serious, I don't really understand how DSA expect driving instructors to include ECO techniques when all those things ought to be covered anyway . . . surely?
'Making progress' could, however, be seen as very much anti-ECO - it's one of the things that makes supposedly 'economic' and eco-friendly' motorcycling a fallacy, when bunches of riders go out at weekends wasting scarce fuel then moaning about the price of it during the week . . . 
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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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"Making progress" <> "Driving fast".
Making progress is about not being held up, driving safely and legally, and making best use of opportunities. This can equate with eco driving also - e.g. not stopping at roundabouts and having to start from a standstill again, by planning your approach properly.
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Horse
Joined: 05 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote: | | "Making progress" <> "Driving fast". |
Quite true, but take any 'advanced' test - or, for that matter, the DSA 'L' test - and you are required, AFAIK, to drive up to the speed limit when it's safe to do so.
Which if it's 70 will use more fuel than driving at, f'rinstance, 50.
FWIW, on one advanced course I did, the instructor advised against overly slowing early and then 'rolling' up to a red light trying to arrive as it changed to green if there was following traffic which might be inconvenienced (or not understand what & why you're doing).
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martine
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 1267
Location: Bristol, UK
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Horse wrote: | | FWIW, on one advanced course I did, the instructor advised against overly slowing early and then 'rolling' up to a red light trying to arrive as it changed to green if there was following traffic which might be inconvenienced (or not understand what & why you're doing). |
Yes but there's a difference between actively braking (to slowdown early) and simply backing off the accelerator ('accelerator sense') and braking right at the end. Backing off shouldn't cause too much inconvenience/annoyance unless taken to extreme.
Back to my original post though...us 'advanced drivers' (and the IAM) should proudly chirp up why we do it: smoothness, enjoyment, safety, making progress etc. The benefit of improved fuel consumption is for me quite low down on the list and I don't think it has much appeal to a young driver with perhaps a 1.0l Corsa. The IAM should publically resist blanket lower speed limits - this would get much more interest and support than harping on about improving fuel consumption by:
* 'removing roof-racks',
* 'making sure tyres are inflated properly' and
* 'reducing your journeys'
...like one recent IAM press release.
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ScoobyChris
Joined: 01 May 2006
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Location: Andover, Hants
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: IAM on BBC1's Panorama - 28th July - shock, horror... |
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| martine wrote: | | I really keen to attract younger drivers 'eco-driving' does nothing for the IAMs image. We shouldn't shirk selling driver education, making progress, driving fun - it's a bit like the IAM's current dabbling with cycle training - wrong, wrong, wrong! |
I think the problem with the IAM's image goes deeper than "eco-driving". I've introduced quite a few young (and some slightly less young!) drivers to advanced driving and (apparently) inspired them to pursue it further with their IAM/RoSPA groups. However, I've had feedback from a few that it wasn't as fun as the informal coaching I have given them and as a result they don't feel they want to keep it up.
I think the only real way to keep people tied in is to offer big incentives, such as significant insurance discounts for those who pass their test and maintain that standard. But is that the right thing to do? 
Chris |
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jont
Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 750
Location: Bristol
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: IAM on BBC1's Panorama - 28th July - shock, horror... |
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| ScoobyChris wrote: | I think the problem with the IAM's image goes deeper than "eco-driving". I've introduced quite a few young (and some slightly less young!) drivers to advanced driving and (apparently) inspired them to pursue it further with their IAM/RoSPA groups. However, I've had feedback from a few that it wasn't as fun as the informal coaching I have given them and as a result they don't feel they want to keep it up.
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Did they go into specifics about how styles of coaching differed and why they preferred yours? (I'm guessing dogma will come into this - but thats one of the big variables where it depends entirely on your mentor).
And why aren't you signed up with your local group (of whatever flavour) as an observer/tutor?
| Quote: | | I think the only real way to keep people tied in is to offer big incentives, such as significant insurance discounts for those who pass their test and maintain that standard. But is that the right thing to do? |
Never mind insurance discounts, different speed limits would be a far better incentive for many to improve their driving. TBH I've yet to come across a training course where the discounts outweigh the overall cost (taking into account time + petrol as well as any fees for instruction/venues etc). |
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jcochrane
Joined: 25 May 2008
Posts: 66
Location: Croydon
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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A friend of mine is HPC Gold and has passed higher awards available with the IAM and ROSPA. He recently took the IAM motorcycle test which he failed on his first attempt. The reason given, he told me, was that he selected the appropriate gear to drive through a series of bends which would give him the most control. Apparantly he should have selected a higher gear and used the brake to slow (thus driving more economically) rather than reducing the throttle opening .
My friend was a little taken aback and the examiner, whilst not disagreeing with him, showed him the section, in the new IAM book on driving, that lists what the examiner will be looking for. One of the items on the list referred to economy driving.
I find this worrying that I should now be driving and advising others to sacrifice a degree of safety for economy if I am to follow the new IAM "green code".
I would have thought safety and self preservation was more important than economy. But then what do I know.  |
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