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What is the best way to take turns?
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crossword



Joined: 14 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:55 am    Post subject: What is the best way to take turns? Reply with quote

Hi everyone
I just joined this forum and this is my first post here.

I apologize if my question sounds too basic and newbie for this forum. I''m a beginner and have taken 10 driving lessons so far and have 10 more to go

I live in India and we all learn on manual transmission even if we graduate to automatic after that. We have right hand drive here and we keep to the left of the road.

I''ve been reading instructions on the net about how to drive a stick shift car. I''ve downloaded various articles. Some of what they say is contrary to what my instructor says but then I note that some of the articles contradict each other too. I always thought there was only one way to drive a car but have realized people have different opinions on how it should be done.

I would like to know what the best way to make a turn is. My father says he downshifts to first gear before making a turn and that is how it is to be done because traffic in India is heavy and fast and one should take turns slowly.

Now my instructor says one should never use first gear for anything except when you start the car. I have read some articles on the net corroborating that and saying first gear is basically too slow for anything except for when you start in neutral and have to shift up.

My instructor says its ok to make turns in 2nd or 3rd gear, depending on how much traffic there is and how fast you can take the turn. He says you can take left turns in 3rd gear but generally have to use 2nd for right. That is because we keep to the left here and in western countries you would have to do it the other way round – lower gear for left turns since they keep to the right there.

The way he has taught me is: when you approach a turn, first give the signal for whether you are turning left or right.

Then brake gently to slow down the vehicle. At the same time also press the clutch pedal to the floor and shift to a lower gear IF NECESSARY. He says it’s ok to even change gears as you are actually turning if by chance you have to do it quickly and you left it too late.

Now I have read on the net one should never shift gears while in the middle of executing a turn.

And my father says you always have to push the clutch down anyway in order to let the car maintain enough speed to negotiate the turn, otherwise just braking on its own might make the car stop and then you’d have to restart it.

Anyway I would like to know which is the best way to make a turn, the way that is safest and causes the least wear and tear on the car. Can you tell me the steps you take, in order?

I have read it’s more expensive to replace the clutch than the brake, so if you’re going to overuse something, it had better be the brake rather than the clutch.

Thanks in advance for any help.
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Gareth



Joined: 15 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: What is the best way to take turns? Reply with quote

Hi crossword and welcome,

crossword wrote:
I apologize if my question sounds too basic and newbie for this forum. I''m a beginner and have taken 10 driving lessons so far and have 10 more to go

It should probably have been posted in the Learners forum, but never mind. We might find that a moderator moves the thread ...

crossword wrote:
I live in India and we all learn on manual transmission even if we graduate to automatic after that.

That's interesting. In the UK, if someone passes the driving test in an automatic, they are not allowed to drive a manual transmission car, but there is no such restriction the other way around.

crossword wrote:
We have right hand drive here and we keep to the left of the road.

The same as in the UK.

crossword wrote:
I would like to know what the best way to make a turn is. My father says he downshifts to first gear before making a turn and that is how it is to be done because traffic in India is heavy and fast and one should take turns slowly.

Now my instructor says one should never use first gear for anything except when you start the car. I have read some articles on the net corroborating that and saying first gear is basically too slow for anything except for when you start in neutral and have to shift up.

It really depends on the car and how fast you plan to take the turning. Different cars, with differing engine characteristics and differing gearbox ratios, will respond differently. It is good to know the range of speeds for each of the lower gears, (1st, 2nd and maybe 3rd), so that you can choose the appropriate gear for the speed of the manoeuvre. If the car judders then the gear is too high!

There can be an issue with changing down into 1st gear - if you are moving above a crawl then it can be quite difficult to do this smoothly, and perhaps this is why your instructor is against using 1st gear to make a turning. The other related point is that for many normal cars, 2nd gear is suitable in these circumstances.

crossword wrote:
The way he has taught me is: when you approach a turn, first give the signal for whether you are turning left or right.

Then brake gently to slow down the vehicle. At the same time also press the clutch pedal to the floor and shift to a lower gear IF NECESSARY. He says it’s ok to even change gears as you are actually turning if by chance you have to do it quickly and you left it too late.

Now I have read on the net one should never shift gears while in the middle of executing a turn.

Strictly speaking it is better to complete the braking and gear change before starting to turn. This is one of 'rules' of British advanced driving, and it is designed to increase the level of safety. However most British drivers don't do it this way, and end up braking into the turn and then changing gear as they have nearly finished turning.

I would think it is best to follow your instructor's advice, which seems to be that it is better to make the gear change before the turning, but if you haven't managed to do so, then make it whenever you can as it is better to be in the correct gear to be able to pull away as you complete the turning. Remember your instructor is probably more familiar with what is an acceptable standard of driving in your part of India, but if you feel that is not the case, perhaps you should try to find a different instructor.

crossword wrote:
And my father says you always have to push the clutch down anyway in order to let the car maintain enough speed to negotiate the turn, otherwise just braking on its own might make the car stop and then you’d have to restart it.

This seems to be a bit of a contradiction to his advice about using first gear to take the corner, and is only needed if the gear is too high for the speed you are going.

crossword wrote:
Anyway I would like to know which is the best way to make a turn, the way that is safest and causes the least wear and tear on the car. Can you tell me the steps you take, in order?

First I check the mirrors for other road users, then I signal to indicate which way I intend turning. I brake to slow the car down enough so that it can go easily and comfortably around the corner. Next I would change to the gear that works best at that speed. I would make a final check in the mirrors and perhaps look over my shoulder if appropriate, then if it is safe I would start making the turn.

My foot is off the clutch pedal while making the turn. A related point is that the appropriate speed to make the turn isn't just controlled by what the car can do - you need to be sure there are no obstructions in the road you are about to join, so you need to be going slow enough to decide that it is safe to continue.

crossword wrote:
I have read it’s more expensive to replace the clutch than the brake, so if you’re going to overuse something, it had better be the brake rather than the clutch.

Absolutely, which is why it is a good idea to try to make good clean gear changes, with the engine speed matching the road speed for the chosen gear, rather than using the clutch to help force everything together. This is also why in the UK now it is common for people to be taught to slow down using the brakes and then change gear, rather than changing down one gear at a time to slow down.
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crossword



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks so much for your detailed and informative answer, Gareth.

Would you mind telling me: do you always or usually press the clutch pedal before braking?

Here, we often have to slow down or sometimes even stop the car in mid-road to avoid cows or other animals that may be crossing the street. Or pedestrians since traffic lights haven’t been invented yet in India. Well, they’re there at major crossroads but no one obeys them unless a policeman is manning the roads and directing traffic.

So since we don’t have traffic lights at most places, people have to cross roads by negotiating breaks in traffic. Except they don’t all wait for breaks and most people except the super-cautious like me just weave in and out of traffic. So basically we never know when someone might come in our path as we’re driving.

So I have to slow down pretty frequently on the roads to avoid people and animals. My question is, should I simply brake slightly or should I press the clutch pedal before braking?
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Gareth



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crossword wrote:
Would you mind telling me: do you always or usually press the clutch pedal before braking?

Ideally depressing the clutch is not automatically required when slowing down but in the circumstances you describe, I can see that it is more likely to be needed.

I think there are two main reasons for depressing the clutch. The first is to change gear and, as some will tell you, with enough skill then it's not always necessary. The second reason is to avoid stalling the engine, and an emergency stop is just a specific example of this.

It makes sense that if you wish to slow down from a high speed to a medium speed, and as long as the gear you have selected is suitable for both speeds, then there will be no need to depress the clutch.

On the other hand, on a busy street where there are all sorts of mobile hazards waiting to leap out into your path, you are likely to be driving a lot slower and it is more likely that you will need to use the clutch as you slow the car down to a speed that is uncomfortable for the engine in the current gear, or perhaps because you need to stop.
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crossword



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks a lot again, Gareth. I suppose your foot is not pressing the brake while you are actually turning?

I see one has to sometimes depress the clutch [without actually changing gears I assume] to avoid stalling the engine, but how does that work? I mean, do you press the clutch before you brake or during braking or after you brake? And when do you then release it? Thanks!
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ROG



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depressing the clutch takes the 'drive' off the wheels so you have less engine braking to help you slow down

When to depress the clutch? - when you 'feel' the engine starting to stall.

How to practise this? - find empty road or off road place and get up to say 40 in gear 5 - stay in gear 5 - press brake pedal but just poise foot over clutch - when you feel the 'juddery' bit, depress clutch slightly and then a bit more as needed - you will only have the clutch fully depressed just before coming to a full stop.
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