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tp24
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 1
Location: Harrogate
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 Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 10:06 am Post subject: Parking. |
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| I want to do my advanced driving and i am absolutely hopeless at reverse parking and any reversing manouvere such as bay parking etc. Would the observer give you tips./instruction on how to improve or would it be better to get to grips with it first and then start the advanced driving? |
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ScoobyChris
Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 1033
Location: Andover, Hants
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 10:34 am Post subject: |
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My observer was happy to check these and offered hints and tips. However, it seems to be a lottery as to whether you get them on a test - for RoSPA, I had to do a 3-point turn...
http://www.netroadar.org/training/rpp.htm
Might also be of interest 
Chris |
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ROG
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 955
Location: LEICESTER
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 10:37 am Post subject: |
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Welcome tp24
Tip - find an empty car park and drive backwards - do not park in a bay or do anything else fancy - just drive backwards - find out what you can do with a car and how it handles in backward mode - when you think that you have figured out how it handles then try doing 'figure of eights' or circles........... in a few weeks you will be able to try parking and you will probably find that you can 'just do it' 
PS - this tip was taken from the book 'Mind Driving' by Stephen Haley.
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ROG
Civilian Advanced Driver
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Leicester Group of Advanced Motorists
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James
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 2252
Location: Surrey
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| ROG wrote: |
PS - this tip was taken from the book 'Mind Driving' by Stephen Haley. |
This thread was bought to you today by the letters A, and D 
lol
Sorry Rog, couldnt resist
Seriously though - sound advice.
I usually use the "turn at the point side mirrors are level", and then "straighten when your side mirror meets the end of the car" tip... |
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ROG
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 955
Location: LEICESTER
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| James wrote: |
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I like YELLOW 
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ROG
Civilian Advanced Driver
Senior Observer
Leicester Group of Advanced Motorists
UNEMPLOYED LGV instructor |
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dth
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 389
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: Parking. |
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| tp24 wrote: | | I want to do my advanced driving and i am absolutely hopeless at reverse parking and any reversing manouvere such as bay parking etc. Would the observer give you tips./instruction on how to improve or would it be better to get to grips with it first and then start the advanced driving? |
The observer/branch may be prepared to help you but I don't believe it is the advanced organisation's purpose to teach what should be regarded as 'basic' skills.
I believe the best thing would be to get these skills up to basic standard before going for an advanced test.
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Life is not black and white - neither is driving. |
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Gareth
Joined: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 1113
Location: Berkshire
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: Parking. |
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| dth wrote: | | I don't believe it is the advanced organisation's purpose to teach what should be regarded as 'basic' skills. |
I'm not sure this is completely the case. After all, most 'normal' motorists learn the basic skills well enough to pass the DSA test then forget how to reverse park, whether at the side of the road or in a car-park. They probably almost never do 3-point turns. It's not surprising that they are somewhat rusty when it comes to preparing for an advanced car driving test. Much of the preparation for such a test is already covered in the DSA test, so from a practical point of view, the organisations will be reminding drivers about basic skills.
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there is only the road, nothing but the road ... |
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dth
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: Parking. |
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| Gareth wrote: | | ....... It's not surprising that they are somewhat rusty when it comes to preparing for an advanced car driving test......... |
But there's a difference between being 'rusty' and being 'hopeless' which suggests restarting from the beginning as far as manoeuvring skills are concerned.
Using funds/resources to 'coach' basic skills is not what members would or should expect. It is a judgement call for each case but I think there is a line to be drawn.
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Life is not black and white - neither is driving. |
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waremark
Joined: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 592
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Please don't be put off by dth's comments. As an IAM Observer, I would expect most Observers to be perfectly happy to help with parking and other manoevering skills. |
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crr003
Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 1140
Location: Wirral
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 11:21 pm Post subject: Re: Parking. |
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| dth wrote: | But there's a difference between being 'rusty' and being 'hopeless' which suggests restarting from the beginning as far as manoeuvring skills are concerned.
Using funds/resources to 'coach' basic skills is not what members would or should expect. It is a judgement call for each case but I think there is a line to be drawn. |
As an Observer, I certainly make sure the Associate knows what reverse manoeuvres can be requested, and that they know how to do them. I don't spend ages on this as there are more fun things to be getting on with and I expect them to practice "on their own time". |
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dth
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 389
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 12:23 am Post subject: Re: Parking. |
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| crr003 wrote: | | As an Observer, I certainly make sure the Associate knows what reverse manoeuvres can be requested, and that they know how to do them. I don't spend ages on this as there are more fun things to be getting on with and I expect them to practice "on their own time". |
Now, I don't think that's wrong at all! All I'm saying is what I'm saying.
I'm a Senior Observer and have a long experience of what the advanced organisations do. Different groups do things differently and all have the interests of their associates at heart and will have a wide accommodation of that within reason.
I am a member of the IAM and an ADI. Teaching someone to do the manoeuvres (as opposed to coaching/brushing them up) is a cheap way of getting driving tuition which is inappropriate use of IAM resources and also moves into the difficult area of legality or otherwise as to whether what happens then is teaching or observing. That's all I'm saying.
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crr003
Joined: 11 Sep 2005
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Location: Wirral
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Parking. |
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| dth wrote: | | I am a member of the IAM and an ADI. Teaching someone to do the manoeuvres (as opposed to coaching/brushing them up) is a cheap way of getting driving tuition which is inappropriate use of IAM resources and also moves into the difficult area of legality or otherwise as to whether what happens then is teaching or observing. That's all I'm saying. |
I can understand if I was paying £20 an hour for little Johnny's lessons I would be less than impressed if he was doing reversing for weeks on end!
However, it's my IAM experience (somewhat limited 'cos I'm not Senior) that most people can't reverse for toffee. How they passed their DSA tests is beyond me (OK - so there are bits of tape stuck in strategic places, that's how).
It's part of the curriculum and should be covered.
How do IAM/RoADAR Examiners treat reversing on test? My last RoADAR retest he said as we drove into the carpark at the end "can you reverse into a bay - I need to see a reverse." |
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dth
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Parking. |
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| crr003 wrote: | | My last RoADAR retest he said as we drove into the carpark at the end "can you reverse into a bay - I need to see a reverse." |
That's it, simple request to see what happens using formal or informal language. It doesn't really matter as long as the meaning is understood clearly. Most of the time, with experienced drivers, they know how to steer but they often fall down on too high speed and certainly on insufficient observations. If they went slower, they'd have more time to get the other things right - simple really!!
I did a 'pre-test' check drive this week and the candidate couldn't do the parallel park to the correct standard - kept coming in and hitting the kerb, so we abandoned it. Whatever the reason, the standard wasn't good enough ie if it was because the technique was wrong, it needs a fix by his Observer. If it was because of nerves, the fix is to keep practising it till the prospect of doing it raises no additional nerves than normal.
In either case, it should be a brushing up exercise and not a 'cannot do it at all and never have done since I passed my test and I wasn't asked to do it then anyway'.
If that's the situation, someone can still do the advanced sessions but spending Observers time on teaching basics is not on. The associate should be given information and told to practise in their own time rather than the IAM's or, maybe, pay an ADI for basic tuition. But that gets more expensive for them, doesn't it when they can get it 'free' with the IAM!!
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crr003
Joined: 11 Sep 2005
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Location: Wirral
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: Parking. |
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| dth wrote: | | crr003 wrote: | | My last RoADAR retest he said as we drove into the carpark at the end "can you reverse into a bay - I need to see a reverse." |
That's it, simple request to see what happens using formal or informal language. It doesn't really matter as long as the meaning is understood clearly. Most of the time, with experienced drivers, they know how to steer but they often fall down on too high speed and certainly on insufficient observations. If they went slower, they'd have more time to get the other things right - simple really!! |
I mean the reverse seemed to be because I had to do one for the grading system, otherwise he wouldn't have bothered asking?
On my IAM test I did a turn in the road (with a bay park on arrival as the Examiner was watching and I was told this would "get a reverse out of the way".)
Personally I don't spend much time going backwards and don't see it as a super advanced driving skill - I remember seeing old photos of IAMers doing parking tests and winning prizes - I doubt I'd be troubling the scorers though! |
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martine
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 1267
Location: Bristol, UK
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: Parking. |
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Not wishing to sound hard but I do agree with...
| dth wrote: | | ...but spending Observers time on teaching basics is not on. The associate should be given information and told to practise in their own time rather than the IAM's or, maybe, pay an ADI for basic tuition. |
I also agree with Crr003...there are plenty more important safety and 'advanced' skills than flipping reversing round a corner.  I explain what's expected in the test, let them show me, give some hints and then leave it to them to practise.
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Martin - Bristol IAM Group Senior Observer and Secretary. |
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