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7db
Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 1595
Location: London
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 Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: Aggression |
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My new daily commute takes in the rat-runs of Park Royal where WhiteVanMan rules, chav Merc lurks and Mrs Bimble shops for 32p bargains in Asda. And boy are they angry.
It left me thinking about what winds people up and makes them drive like complete tossers. Passing on the left, and then changing to the right lane, cutting up on roundabout, jumping a light, jumping a queue, not signalling etc etc.
I'm curious at to what others think are the main causes, and how to you recognise and cope with driving aggression - both in others and in yourself?
How does it manifest itself? |
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Big Err
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 566
Location: Kinross, Scotland
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Aggression |
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| 7db wrote: | | It left me thinking about what winds people up and makes them drive like complete tossers. |
An over-riding surge of selfishness, self importance and belief in that they are always correct no matter what the circumstances are?
Brought about by the safety cell like cocoon created by the modern vehicle that keeps all of the nasties from the outside world at bay - including other road users whom you wish to remonstrate with? |
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martine
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 1234
Location: Bristol, UK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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I think it's a mixture of selfishness, ignorance and the belief that driving like a plonker actually gets them to their destination quicker.
Plenty of people just don't understand the consequences of an accident to themselves and others - they take risks in the belief it will be all right or if they do have an accident, no one will get hurt. (how many miles of tailbacks are caused by nose-tail shunts on m-ways every day...if drivers just backed off a little the accident would be avoided)
I make a point (as I'm sure others do on this forum) in a stream of slow moving traffic, of letting drivers out from side roads. Others it seems make a point of closing gaps - which is just downright rude.  I really can't understand this attitude - it shows a certain lack of processing power in the brain dept. if you ask me.
How much nicer would it be for everyone to maximise progress of everyone around and not be deliberately obstructive?
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Martin - Bristol IAM Group Senior Observer and Secretary. |
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Why_Aye
Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 128
Location: Due west of Leicester
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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I certainly agree regarding the arrogance/self importance/etc. idea - no less after driving in football traffic on Saturday just gone.
Now, my understanding of a green light is that you may proceed if the way is clear and safe. I had proceeded over the junction on a green light and saw that my target location was available, it was safe for me to get there and clear - but by the time I was about there, the lights to my right were on green and some numptie made a dash for the space I was headed for. Of course I had made an allowance for this, so I just stopped where I was - I no longer had my first route. The numptie behind the numptie, however, mouthed to me "you stay where you are" and jumped in behind the first numptie, so not only did I no longer have my first route, my escape route was now also blocked. Now, I was blocking a lane to the numptie's left (which I eventually decided I'd better take, as there was a queue of traffic trying to get through me down an empty lane.
Now, I probably haven't explained this well, but the end result was that because of the two numpties, I estimate that four to six cars were denied the early progress that they could have had.
I got fed up of the football traffic (forgot that the match was on) and went on a long detour, but one that was free of numpties. (That wasn't before letting someone into the queue, however...)
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David
Advanced driver of 2008? |
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Jasp
Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| martine wrote: | the belief that driving like a plonker actually gets them to their destination quicker.
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It amazes me how many people believe this, or believe that the time they will save by exceeding the speed limit is important. Is everyone on the roads late for something so important that it warrants endangering life to get there 60 seconds earlier.
I had a long horn from a BMW driver overtaking me in a 50 zone last week. I was traveling at about 50 and making good progress where appropriate.
Today I was overtaken by a White Van Man, in the wet, outside a school, at school leaving time just before a 20 zone. I was just flabbergasted. There were very young children everywhere and lots of parked cars. I think these hazards meant nothing to him. He'd previously given me a toot for not following a car that passed a parked car on the left, when I could see that it wasn't safe to proceed because of an oncoming vehicle. Again I can only assume he had not seen the oncoming vehicle or perhaps he just always moves out into oncoming traffic because oncoming traffic has never hit him.
I don't know what to make of the BMW driver (that really confused me) but the WVM just seemed like a normal person who simply doesn't appreciate the danger he might cause. |
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Big Err
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 566
Location: Kinross, Scotland
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Jasp wrote: | | I had a long horn from a BMW driver overtaking me in a 50 zone last week. I was traveling at about 50 and making good progress where appropriate. |
I got the full works from a school bus in a 30mph zone last week! Tailgating, headlight flash, overtake, cutting in and braking and all because I was doing 30!
Nice email sent to the person responsible for issuing school transport contracts followed this, and joy of joy I had a witness too  |
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WS
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 54
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Road aggression is a big problem in Poland and I think your descriptions of what people do on the road suit very closely what you could see here. I think the only way to deal with such people is to let them pass/overtake, i.e. get rid of them as quickly as possible. The problem is when you end up being overtaken by everyone all the time 
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Wojtek |
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hardboiled
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| martine wrote: | I make a point (as I'm sure others do on this forum) in a stream of slow moving traffic, of letting drivers out from side roads. Others it seems make a point of closing gaps - which is just downright rude. I really can't understand this attitude - it shows a certain lack of processing power in the brain dept. if you ask me.
How much nicer would it be for everyone to maximise progress of everyone around and not be deliberately obstructive? |
If the traffic density isn't too high then I leave larger than normal gaps and leave it for the people in the side roads to decide if they want to pull out.
In heavy traffic I don't see the point in letting everyone out all the time. I could get to work a few minutes earlier in a car if lots of people didn't take a short cut knowing they're going to be let out - almost priority goes to the (two) side roads at one particular point on my route.
Of course this still all takes too long anyway so I commute on a motorbike and just drive past all the traffic letting people out of the side roads |
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waremark
Joined: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 573
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:51 am Post subject: |
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Virtually no-one intends to have or cause an accident - and normal drivers almost never do (I take once in 7 years, or whatever the average is, to be almost never). But a lot of people are late or impatient a lot of the time, and when late or impatient care for nothing except what they think may possibly help them to arrive a moment earlier.
Bad driving does not usually fuss me - I look at it with wry amusement, and just get on with the job. |
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Gareth
Joined: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 1078
Location: Berkshire
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| WS wrote: | | The problem is when you end up being overtaken by everyone all the time |
One trick to help with this is to repeatedly remind yourself of your actual speed. If you are moving forward, you are still heading towards your destination. The reality is that as long as there are other people using the roads you intend using, your journey will always take a bit longer than the theoretical minimum and probably for most of your journey you will be travelling at a reasonable speed.
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TripleS
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 2200
Location: Whitby, North Yorkshire
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:45 am Post subject: |
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A round of applause for Mark and Gareth, gentlemen, if you please.
Best wishes all,
Dave. |
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DSGboy
Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 22
Location: West Lothian
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| martine wrote: | I make a point (as I'm sure others do on this forum) in a stream of slow moving traffic, of letting drivers out from side roads. Others it seems make a point of closing gaps - which is just downright rude. I really can't understand this attitude - it shows a certain lack of processing power in the brain dept. if you ask me.
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Actually, I disagree with this. There are many circumstances where it is appropriate to let people out, and there are many when I believe it is quite inappropriate, and not a sign of lack of brain power.
I have experienced many times on my regular commute situations where the volume of traffic joining from a side road can bring the main road to a standstill. In these circumstances where there is a slip road, I find that leaving too much of a gap encourages pushy drivers to make a mad dash across the white hatches! to get ahead of their fellow joinees. I always do my best to co-operate with fellow drivers and more than happy to allow merging in turn or let one car out. I have found that leaving too much of a gap in these circumstances can contribute to chaos by encouraging people to try to bully their way out onto the main road, when they see you as a 'weak' target. On the other hand if you manage to leave a large enough gap such as at motorway junctions, this can contribute to easing the flow of traffic on both main and on-ramps.
Does anyone have any advice on strategies to negotiate this sort of situation more safely? |
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Big Err
Joined: 02 Jul 2006
Posts: 566
Location: Kinross, Scotland
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| DSGboy wrote: | | Does anyone have any advice on strategies to negotiate this sort of situation more safely? |
Anticipation - identifying those who will make the mad dash across the chevrons and allowing room for them to do so 'safely'. They may be in the wrong but I don't think there is much pleasure to derive from saying 'I was in the right' when your car is crumpled. |
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martine
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 1234
Location: Bristol, UK
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| DSGboy wrote: | | I have experienced many times on my regular commute situations where the volume of traffic joining from a side road can bring the main road to a standstill. |
Not if you take it in turns...both roads are still 'flowing'.
I am however much more cautious letting people out from a side road when they want to turn right - as you say it could cause an incident if not accident.
The classic I come across everyday not 1/4 mile from my house are 2 mini roundabouts where a continuous stream of traffic means it can be very difficult for the 'minor' roads to join. I just open a gap and look them in the eye (even though I have priority). Most people are very thankful and it doesn't effect the flow of the main route much at all. I know from experience you can be waiting a long time before a suitable gap appears.
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Martin - Bristol IAM Group Senior Observer and Secretary. |
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WS
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 54
Location: Poland
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Gareth wrote: | | WS wrote: | | The problem is when you end up being overtaken by everyone all the time |
One trick to help with this is to repeatedly remind yourself of your actual speed. If you are moving forward, you are still heading towards your destination. The reality is that as long as there are other people using the roads you intend using, your journey will always take a bit longer than the theoretical minimum and probably for most of your journey you will be travelling at a reasonable speed. |
I don't have a problem with somebody or even everybody overtaking me, what I meant was that it becomes dangerous when you are the only car in a three-lane street/road that is moving at a more or less legal speed, and everyone is moving faster. Which, unfortunately, is something that I experience often 
Referring to the other part of the discussion, I think there are times for letting people from side roads and times when you should not do it. In my opinion, apart from safety and your own progress, you should take into account the tradeoff between the benefit of those you let in and those who are behind you. In my opinion you should do whatever brings the biggest overall benefit.
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Best regards from Poland
Wojtek |
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